The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site is a compendium of information about the Jeffrey MacDonald case. MacDonald was convicted in 1979 of the murders of his pregnant wife and two small daughters. He is serving three life sentences for that brutal crime.

The Murders of Colette, Kimberley and Kristen MacDonald

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site

December 7, 1980: Interview of Helena Stoeckley by Dr. Rex Beaber

Note: Translation of the document following the scanned pages

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site: December 7, 1980: Interview of Helena Stoeckley by Dr. Rex Beaber, p. 1

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site: December 7, 1980: Interview of Helena Stoeckley by Dr. Rex Beaber, p. 2

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site: December 7, 1980: Interview of Helena Stoeckley by Dr. Rex Beaber, p. 3

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site: December 7, 1980: Interview of Helena Stoeckley by Dr. Rex Beaber, p. 4

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site: December 7, 1980: Interview of Helena Stoeckley by Dr. Rex Beaber, p. 5

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site: December 7, 1980: Interview of Helena Stoeckley by Dr. Rex Beaber, p. 6

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site: December 7, 1980: Interview of Helena Stoeckley by Dr. Rex Beaber, p. 7

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site: December 7, 1980: Interview of Helena Stoeckley by Dr. Rex Beaber, p. 8

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site: December 7, 1980: Interview of Helena Stoeckley by Dr. Rex Beaber, p. 9

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site: December 7, 1980: Interview of Helena Stoeckley by Dr. Rex Beaber, p. 10

Note from Christina Masewicz: Translation of the above document as I read it to be
I have inserted spaces between lines to aid in easier reading
Spelling, punctuation and grammar preserved


12/7/80 interview with Dr. Rex Beaber

page 1


Age 28
Born in Cincinatti, (sic) Ohio 1962

Father was a career artist

at 6-7 months old moved to North Carolina

at 2 years old transferred to France

where she attended a catholic boarding school

travelled extensively throughout europe

at 10 years old returned to the United States has an older sister, Saharishad, brother Clarence, Jr., and younger brother Eugene

Education took place completely in French as a child

Dr. Barber asks her to say "How old are you " in french, she does this

also say "I live in the mountains", she could not say this also say "I went to school at UCLA", she could not say this

Dr. Beaber asks "Did you ever return to France after you were 10? Answer - No

her family lived in Columbus, Georgia a short time when she was 10 and then her father retired and they moved to Fayetteville, North Carolina

she graduated in 1969 She moved out about 2 weeks later (now 16 years old)

got her own apartment and moved from wealth to poverty, she felt independent and wanted to be away from her father's authority, wanted to get rid of father's advice, belief, monetary standards etc.

she had a job in a pizza shop to support herself and was already using drugs

started hitting the streets and selling drugs instead of working, mostly heroin and hallucinogenic (was also into this at 15 and before she moved out)

also using speed, Crystal meth - injecting this but didn't like it because she considers herself hyperactive anyway

used heroin for 10 years, had burns, collapsed veins, also used ankles as well as arms because she didn't want people to see tracks.

off and on doing odd nursing jobs to support herself

could get two 'hits' for $10 in Fayetteville at that time

most of the time she was 'messed up' on drugs but managed to stay straight to do a deal, ie. a buy or exchange of drugs

conducted dealing as a business, not many females dealing at that time

no problem getting drugs from Viet Nam in Fayetteville, we sent drugs to Nam and they would send some back

I had no problems because I kept my mouth shut

Beaber asks, "Did you ever prostitute yourself?" Answer - NO

She never sold heroin or mind-altering drugs to anyone who wasn't already using because she didn't want anyone to et addicted like she was - would not sell to children

had to be someone who was a known user and was already strung out

she became so physically sick from drug used that friends told her father and he came and got her at her apartment and took her to the army hospital who then transferred her to North Carolina Memorial to get off opium and heroin (that was coming from Viet Nam) and she stayed approximately 3 months

then back to Fayetteville and was back on drugs immediately, then staying at parent's house
she was checking into the army hospital had access because of father) because she had a problem with low blood (anemia) at the time

Went to Womack and found she had hepatitis and they wanted to admit her but she said no because it was her birthday (17) and her brother's graduation

ended up in hospital for 2 months but was still shooting up in hospital via G.I. friend who was transporting drugs to her

after getting out of hospital, 2 weeks later, she had a set back and was admitted into hospital again

page 2

SIDE 1 cont'd

then came out and decided to do a turn around and wanted to work with junkies

went to Acquanis Jr. College in Nashville, Tennesse, (sic) which was a private Catholic college, stayed in nursing dormitory
at that time another female nurse was supplying her with needles and she was shooting Thorazine which she said put her to sleep
then back heavily into heroin


was on probation at school because she already in trouble with authorities, cops knew about her drug involvement
her dress manner started getting worse, wearing blue jeans with frills etc.

had a lot of night classes so she got away with it

started taking acid to school with her put in her "poison ring"

started sitting in black, right-hand corner of the class and 'nodding out' started feeling embittered

grades were o.k. but she felt she had to get out

towards Easter of that year she had had it with school

in the meantime, she had been contacted about the MacDonald murders again and she refused to talk, put her on a polygraph which proved she was in the house but did not do anything

still 17 at the time

health was very poor, had reoccurring of hepatitis

heroin made her more active

not eating or sleeping, went to Vanderbilt Hospital (TN) but she wouldn't stop using drugs

off and on visits to Fayetteville

in 1972 0r 1973 she went back to Fayetteville (taken a nursing assistance course in Nashville and had a boutique there, was involved in music a lot, singing, piano

something about having a stroke at about 25 years old was mentioned here

she would go to some of the clubs in Nashville where she would get and sing for fun

tried out for Opryland U.S.A and passed the audition but she was accepted into a nursing course in North Carolina so she went there instead - always wanted to be involved in Medicine and helping people, she talks about being a candy striper here

applied for nursing school in Daytona, was into quaaludes etc. at that time

worked as nursing aid in Daytona hospital for a time

then at a medical personnel firm, then at a doctor's office for several months where she learned some Spanish (sister married a Mexican), was using heroin while in nursing school

Dr. Beaber gives something in Spanish which she can't translate

she is 19 or 20 at this time

moved back to North Carolina and was messing with the same old people
worked at a theatre in a box office, using lots of quaaludes, occasionally heroin and smoking all the time
she say, I forgot to tell you that after the MacDonald murders I stopped using all hallucinogenic drugs
stayed real depressed for 1-2 years, admitted to Dorthea Dix, Therapeutic Community (state hospital) where she was assigned a job as a nurses aid after awhile she was in a catatonic state when she first went in and and about 11/2 months later she had done a turn around and was singing, playing piano, helping others and it seemed she was a different person (also had suicidal tendencies at that time)

at this time was having really bead dreams and became afraid to go to sleep

page 3

SIDE 2 (Cont'd)

also experiencing a lot of deja vu but only only her husband believed her

Beaber asks, "Did you experience feeling things that weren't there? Answer - NO

she sometimes felt the presence of others not there

remembers smelling a certain smell that was familiar and it was attached to some place she couldn't remember that was important, also saw this one shade of blue all the time that was connected to a memory of being a little girl

didn't hear voices Content of bad dreams was usually death, dieing (sic), killing, very morbid - these started in North Carolina Memorial

Beaber asks, "Did these dreams occur after the MacDonald Killings." she never answers this

talks about writing poetry and songs that started out beautiful but became very morbid

mentions that her dad would not even read her poetry because of this

at 21 years old, after therapeutic community that she was in for 5-6 months, she felt real good, like she was completely rehabilitated

got an apartment in Raleigh, North Carolina and a job with handicapped children, first was a maid in daytime and then promoted to night to

the night nurse for the children's dormitory, one day took children swimming, was especially close to a 3 year old epileptic girl who was very tiny, took her to the pool and put her in, girl had a seizure and by the time they got her out she had drowned

she wasn't using drugs at this time

that night she was home in her apartment and a male friend was there watching television

she was watching this guy that was sitting on the couch and he kept changing shape and suddenly turned into this 3 year old girl, she got paranoid and thought that he (or the little girl) was trying to kill her, she mentions having a gun in the house, and she tried to call the cops but kept getting the answering service at the bank, so she ran over to the neighbors house across the street and used their phone


girl next door let me use the phone but she couldn't get the police yet
then she saw 2 guys come walking up (isn't sure if this is real or imagined) and one was her brother, who she said was in Daytona Beach at the time, she thought they were smoking which wouldn't have been unusual for her brother

then she got through to the cops and went back to her apartment

guy watching television was still there, one female one male cop came to the door

and she told them that this guy was trying to kill her, they woke him up and he said he didn't know what was going on, so the cops said they could do nothing at that time and left, the guy also left

Helena called a friend in Fayetteville who came over and took her to the state hospital who then took her to Wake Memorial and pumped her stomach and put her into intensive care, after 3 days she came to and found she was paralyzed on the left side of her face, she was drooling, couldn't talk, swallow, or anything like that (this was apparently the stroke she referred to earlier), no one could apparently figure out what caused this, parents came and took her home and she was depressed, Doctor had her on medication for this and sent her to a mental health clinic

another doctor thought it was bell's palsy and that it could be a permanent condition

but mother got her on to nutrition and by January it was gone and she left Fayetteville and went back to Florida

now 22 years old, by August she was then 23 she had been accepted into a nursing school

stayed in Daytona Beach for a while and worked, back to Fayetteville, at 25 or 26 she visited brother in Greenville, South and went back to using heroin heavily

was having speech problems off and on and still had suicidal tendencies

page 4

SIDE 3 (Cont'd)

Dreams were still bothering her - would see Dr. MacDonald standing there with blood running off of him
at this time she felt she had the murder pieced together in her mind as to what had happened, she could tell you from beginning to end what had happened, she would wake up screaming and biting her lip, doctors thought she was having seizures

she kept getting one visual of Dr. MacDonald sitting on the couch, dripping blood then she would see herself holding a candle but it wasn't dripping wax, instead it was blood

she says here as far as she knows, these aren't memories, isn't sure what they are

at this time into a lot of 'junk' and was very sick

dreams of the murders made her think that she was there and she started telling friends she thought she could trust about it

she first had reason to believe she was at the murders when she was 18 or 19 and was in Nashville but couldn't be sure

at first she thought it was absurd but it started to bother her so much that she was asking people to get her sodium penathol (sic) so she could find out the truth but no one would give it to her
she thought that if it showed she was there that night, she knew the others involve, she thought she could find out what really happened, she felt that she did nothing, she would be granted immunity

Dr. MacDonald's name was familiar to her because he was known to be hard on drug abusers and would alert authorities
at this time she wouldn't read the news papers because she didn't want to know anything

at age 25 lived with her brother until Feb. 78 or 79 in Greenville, South Carolina for about 4 months, using heroin heavily, mass doses of barbituates (sic) and was surprised that she didn't kill herself, did O.D. and was treated through emergency

w years ago from now she went into a treatment center called the Morris Village in Columbia, S.C. since then she hasn't had any heroin, at some point (in June) she got out and went to Cincinnati to take care of her grandfather

went back to Columbia but left shortly after for Greenville
at 26 years old, left for Lake Hartwell, said she was going to marry this guy that drove her to Greenville (Ernie Davis), they did marry civilly on April 1, 1979, he is now in South Carolina

Beaber asks what she has been doing in Los Angeles, she answers giving statement to MR. G. about the details of the MacDonald murders
she says that when dealing in heroin she always dealt with men because women couldn't keep their mouths shut, she remembers pulling up into her driveway to her apartment and had already stopped at Dunkin Donuts, 2 girls were in the apartment painting on the walls, and (blacked out) turned and said "Why'd you do it?", and she said she didn't have the radio on in the car and had heard no news and the first thing she was "He deserved to die" but no one knew he (Dr. Mac) had survived at the time it was done

she says if she could remember who was with her at the time she walked in it would prove she was there
she doesn't know why she said what she said unless it was because Dr. Mac had given everyone so much trouble about drugs

when we left, he was presumed dead

it then came on the radio, and everyone turned around to listen
murders occured (sic) February 1970 when she was 16 years old, just after she left home about 7 months

present time - now married (Ernie), husband involved in a law suit

page 5


husband didn't want her to work

while at Lake Hartwell she was seeing a specialist, and she was a free bleeder and it wasn't a good idea to have a baby
she did some private nursing

he worked in construction in Greenville, he wanted to support her but she was independent and this caused trouble in their marriage
at that time took into home her niece and nephew, fights ensued, causing more trouble

one fight, she fell down the steps and broke her heel

went to his family in South Carolina and cops took him in for jumping bail

he found out Ernie had been to California making a statement to MR. G.

he said she actually wrote on their headboard of the bed at one time, she doesn't remember doing this

both were in a vindictive stage, he never told her he was in Los Angeles

tried to get their lives back together again

she left a letter for Beasley that she wanted nothing more to do with MacDonald murders

but they convinced her eventually to come to California and make a statement

Dr. Beaber goes to lunch and Helena fills out a M.M.P.I. test

Dr. Beaber asks why she is here at all

says murders have been a constant interference in her life, always find me, thought that this might be the last time, wanted to contradict Judge Dupree and prove she was of sound mind, marriage has been going through hell because of this situation

wants them to leave her alone

Beaber asks what difference does it make if Judge is wrong or right Helena says, I'm not doing the investigation
she had promised MR. G. and Beasley she would return after the first visit to L.A.

Beaber asks, what trouble has it caused you?
first she was worried about prosecution of the law but they guaranteed me it won't be me because what happened was too long ago for her to be touched

she thinks she will be done with it after this session says people are now accepting psychic phenomena more than before

only out to prove she is not crazy

I don't know where Mr. G's position is on this whole thing

polygraph in Nashville said I was there, didn't participate, but know who did it

MR. G. says we have people who can place me there

next polygraph was incomplete

they thought I knew how to fool the polygraph

I braced myself to say NO when it was YES so maybe that's why it was inconclusive

Beaber asks, How did you get involved with the cult? (Witchcraft)

Mr. G uses the wrong term with cult, that's his favorite word

witchcraft was a popular thing in 69 and 70

everyone was dabbling in it some how

a lot of people professing to be members of cults, some were real, no covens existed

we did have a group of 13 people

I was reading about witchcraft because of curiosity

girl from San Francisco was in a coven there and she started talking to her and became interested in it

my values and morals were changing from catholic to devil worshipper

Beaber asks, were you a member of the group? Answer - yes

(blacked out) myself, some Fort Bragg soldiers who were mostly in the 82nd airborne and were mostly from California

consisted of meeting several times a week

page 6

SIDE 4 (Cont'd)

things discussed I'd rather not go in to

one time was talking about getting some blood, around time of MacDonald murders, from a cat
got into white witchcraft after the murders

a non member saw up slit the throat of a cat and reported it

blood was kept in a bottle, (blacked out) from California had it, was supposed to be sprinkled on someone who was believed to be a police informant, I don't know that it was ever done

incident with cat took place in someone's house located in HAYMONT (sic) Beaber asks, what were beliefs of the group?
more drugs than anything else

most members in the group did discuss Dr. Mac refusing to treat addicts, they would talk to him severely about it, never heard mention of murders, every time he mentions the group, he says the cult (MR. G.)

I didn't like the idea of the cat being killed because I was closer to animals than people

can't stand to think of an animal hurt

cat died immediately after throat was slip, after that there was nothing to it, I was tripping, It could turn into something nice, doing heroin, opium, smoke, there were days I would take LSD on a regular basis

Beaber asks, If you took acid two days in a row, was it more intense? Answer - NO

Beaber asks, How often did group meet?

we had an interest in witchcraft, I collected books (Treasury of Witchcraft)

black and white witchcraft, didn't like what was going on, after MacDonald murders

got out of black witchcraft so that no one had control over me

white witchcraft is for benevolent purposes, help sick people, mind over matter

like home curse to stop bleeding or get rid of diseases


Beaber asks, Did you consider witchcraft prior to murders as black? Answer - YES

if we were meeting and others were there (other than 13 regulars) we would not get into witchcraft
we would designate a high priest, priestess, early meetings by candle light

initition (sic) had to go out and do things

first time I had to go out and do anything was the MacDonald murders, I was supposed to carry a candle

Beaber asks, What were initiations like?

like cutting the cat's throat, one person was designated to do it.

or sex with every male member of the group

I couldn't get into that and was paranoid because my turn was coming up

whole group was present during sex orgies

I wondered if I would ever get used to it all

Beaber asks, Was sexual ritual more than intercourse? Answer - I don't really want to get into that

Beaber says, I don't want to upset you, My understanding is that in your statement to MR. G. you have named people present at the murders, were they from the group? Answer - NO

beliefs about the devil - devil was supreme being, not God, most believe that after they did come back in another form, probably animal

take the catholic religion and turn it around and that's what they believe

they performed acts that I knew were wrong, sex, killing animals, harming other people

I'm not a true believer in witchcraft at that time, I was hanging on by a small thread

it was like taking a course in school, If I wanted the end results, I'd have to get into it, and I didn't like what was going on

page 7

SIDE 5 (Cont'd)

Beaber asks, Did group do things to other people outside of the group?

when I came to the group it wasn't a full 13

3 males members had already been involved in another murder to do witchcraft

also believed in violating people in other ways - informants etc.

females were raped by every male member of the group 11 guys and 2 females

twice they brought in two 15 year olds and drugged and raped them assaults were sexual and physical.

I felt badly about this happening to the young girls because 2 years earlier it could have been me

Beaber asks, why does intercourse bother you?

because of the things they did, sadistic and unusual, bondages...

Beaber asks, were you a victim of this behavior?


I was on a lot of drugs at the time, recent years I have had time to think about how repulsive that was

usually beating up someone had to do with drugs

Beaber asks, how does this connect to MacDonald murders?

Dr. Mac was talking to local authorities, majority in 82nd airborne and were junkies

some members of the group had contact with MacDonald, he treated them, he was going to unusual lengths to tell authorities who was on what, he wouldn't help them out

Beaber asks , What kind of doctor was he?

I thought he was a psychiatrist, he was head of emergency at St. Mary's

Beaber asks, Did they want to do anything to him?

If they did, it wasn't discussed in front of me

It was thought we would come in mass to him and he would know that more than one person was unhappy and he would change

It was discussed for several months before the murders

a lot of people in Haymont (sic) saying that Dr. Mac was giving people a hard time


Dr. Beaber asks to talk about the incident itself and describes to Helena two different kinds of memory: inferential and pure

at midnight the night of the murders I dropped mescaline with a friend in a driveway I don't remember getting to the house

from car to house I remember, and fumbling at the door, someone saying to be quiet or you''ll make the dog bark, going through kitchen, finding Dr. Mac, television on but off the air, seeing his glasses lying on the floor, just then all I can remember is that I was peaking on mescaline

somewhere after this I was seeing blood in one room, I panicked and screamed, thought I headed outside through utility room, went back in, everything was out of control

all I know was we had to get out of there

went out the utility room, around the house to the car, I don't know who was with me, overwhelmed, made a U-turn, passed the Information Center, then don't remember the ride, apparently stopped at Dunkin Donut washed up, was seen there pulling into driveway in blue mustang, guy was holding a Dunkin Donut box (knows who this was), got out of the car, light rain, 2 girls in apartment, (blacked out) said "Why did you do it?"

And she said "He deserved to die"

No memory after this

Next day cops were stopping long-haired people, they started leaving the town

I always wore a floppy hat and boots and also stopped

I went up to this one guy that I remember being with that night in the house and said, (blacked out) I've got to get out of here or I'll be in horrible trouble"

page 8

SIDE 6 (Cont'd)

and he said if you're going, I'm going too because they're looking for me too

He said stay out of the Village shop but I hung around for awhile

being in the house is clear, other parts are fuzzy, she is sure she was there the night of the murders

when they accused Dr. Mac she thought maybe she wasn't there, she was on so many drugs there weren't 13 at the murder, only 7, don't know where other six were

Beaber asks, Was (blacked out) there?

No, not in the house

I didn't know murders were planned and I don't know if others knew

Beaber asks, Can you remember the murders themselves?
No, I didn't see any, I saw Dr. Mac struck with fists, and it drew blood

when I saw child in bedroom she was already covered with blood from what I could see from a dimly lit hallway; there was no rise and fall of her chest and judging by the amount of blood she was dead, I wouldn't go in, there was a small doll on the floor that I wanted to go in and pick up, you know how children sleep, she was in a position that looked like she was sleeping but you know she wasn't so I wouldn't go in the room

In the master bedroom, Colette was pregnant was struggling with people and there was another small child lieing (sic) next to her

struggling I saw with Mac and Colette but never the murders exactly

because when I screamed and left and went back in, started blacking out, MacDonald supposedly pulled a paring knife out of her throat, when I left, there wasn't a paring knife in her throat, yet one time when I heard her in there when she was calling out to him "Jeff why are you letting them do this to me?"

her voice was in a gurgle as if she had been stabbed in the throat already, like someone that has something in their throat and were trying to talk

Beaber asks, Why did she say that?

Dr. Mac was in the living room, he had fallen asleep watching television or reading a book, he had a book on his chest turned upside down, he was on the couch, she was in the back bedroom, one child with her (not sure which one), another child's bedroom was empty, 2nd child in another bedroom, 3 bedrooms in total

Beaber says, You seem to remember more now than before

No, it's all in the statement, I don't know, its hard to explain

Beaber says, I'm not sure what you are thinking? What are you thinking?

I was just trying to figure out how drugs can have such a severe effect on a person like that? Beaber, Like what? Like doing something completely different than you're used to doing, something you wouldn't even talk about much less take part in, I mean I can remember may be in those days something like that could happen but as short as 3 months ago when I was in Greenville, before I was never afraid of knives or anything, no, before I was always afraid of knives which is something I had to think about when answering that book there, I was always afraid of them and yet 3 months ago when I was at home I had a cast on my foot and the people next door had let a couple stay with them who were both using drugs of some sort, I don't know what, but drinking beer along with it, so here I am with my foot propped up, I couldn't move or anything and this girl comes charging in the back door at me saying I was in love with her husband and everything, I mean just acting like an idiot and she is just beating me up and I can't do anything because I have my foot propped up and she finally got me mad enough that I grabbed ahold (sic) of her hair and said you must be crazy and I held her back and she was swinging at nothing and he and the guy they were staying with got her next door again, then my husband got home and later on that evening the young guy from next door came charging in the door with about 3 long kitchen knives in his hand, my husband was sitting down on the couch, he didn't know what had happened earlier, and I thought it best not to tell him anyway I walked over to stop this guy and put my hand up and he cut me across all four fingers, he goes towards Ernest and he says his wife said he was with her

page 9

SIDE 6 (Cont'd)

which he wasn't, he's coming at him and all I could think of was to get in that kitchen where we had a big butch ax, I brought it down on him, cut him in the wrist, when the guy hit the floor, I put pressure on him to stop him from bleeding
I'm still scared of knives, why would I stop someone who had a knife

these people were stabbed and I know that the phone rang and I answered it and someone asked for Dr. Mac and I started laughing and someone behind me said to hang up the phone, this was confirmed later when a man from prison said he made the call

Beaber asks, Have either of your parents had psychiatric counselling? (sic) Answer - NO
Any suicides in your family? Answer - NO



Next, Cards with pictures, she is asked to make up a story including past/present/future and to describe her thoughts, feeling of the people in the story

#2-hard working farm family, father works in the fields mother is strict and she runs everything, daughter isn't staisfied (sic) with farm life, she want to go to the city and get an education, mother looks down on this, father doesn't care,
future: things will keep going on the same on the farm and girl will get away and start a new life somewhere, that's obvious

#7GF - little girl sitting on mother's lap who is reading her stories from a book,

she is holding a doll and day dreaming about they story, wondering if she will have children to read stories to, putting herself into the story, future: uncertain, you can see it in her eyes

#17GF - girl on bridge looks like she is anticipating jumping off, sky is real bright,, but thoughts are dark, will jump anyway, something has happened to her in her life that is bigger than she is, too big to overcome the she feels

#6GF - housewife sitting on the couch, husband leaning over her surprises her, tells her he is talking (sic) her out to dinner, he has been watching her from far off and thinks that he hasn't treated her well, she was used to being treat well, she has lost her vitality since they've gotten married and he realizes that it's mostly his fault
future: they go to dinner

#8GF - girl no matter what she does can't stop day dreaming about far off and exciting things, dreaming about being somewhere else, imagination can take her there if not physically able to go, just as happy thinking about it, wants to go and marry a handsome guy and dress well and not have to do menial labor
future: keeps dreaming, never gets what she wants

#9GF - lady by tree is a maid and hotel, motel on an island somewhere, lady running on beach has just murdered her secret lover, doesn't know she is being watched, maid catches her and future is she goes to prison for the murder, that's obvious too, if you look in her eyes, you know she did something wrong

page 10

SIDE 7 (Cont'd)

#15 - person has been haunted by years by the person in the grave, standing over grave, mentally tormented, goes to grave to shoot whoever it is that has been haunting her, wants to kill the person, points gun to grave and realizes she is pointing it at her own grave

#12F - young lady watching husband talking to another woman, walks into room (store) and woman is what she thought a friend of hers, surprised to see him there because he told her he would be somewhere else, expresses her surprise, old woman is gossiping that there is something going on, now she is starting to feel suspicious

#18GF - two women who are sisters standing by staircase, one is being held by the other, one being held is blind and she was upstairs in her room, needed help, was calling out because she was really sick, sister downstairs heard her but was tired of helping her and just didn't answer, the blind lady crawled out of bed and fell downstairs and died, now sister is feeling remorse but it's too late

#19 - children's play school-artbook in window, terrible storm, near seashore, tidal wave, kids are trapped in school and drowned

#11 - old, large castle, hard to get to, reptiles, crocodiles, dragons, dinosaurs are en route to castle, must pass them to get into this castle, on bridge is four people who got through the barricades, at front gate, but still one reptile to go through, they won't make it in, no one ever makes it

Beaber asks, what is the relationship of you to your family members?

2 brothers, 1 sister, mother and father married 32 years, still together

left home at 16, others did not leave early, she was the rebel, gypsy, black sheep and was constantly reminded of that

I didn't want to fall into a pattern, I wanted to live an interesting life, I respect authority and my parents (tells example of her, MR. G, and Beasley in Chinese restaurant the night before) but don't like it (authority)

I like to be my own boss, if there's rules, I'll follow them

I was ahead in school, but never liked the people I ran with (her parents didn't like them)

I was in a snob school, all rich kids, I was threatened not to graduate because I was wearing love beads (I had the lead role in the school play)

Beaber asks, How did you get along with your mom?

There wasn't fighting, I took opera for 8 years, I was high soprano and she was alto

and we were close in music, but in sewing and cooking it was always my big sister

Beaber asks, Do you love your husband? Of Course I do, Why?

Beaber - It sounds like a marriage of convenience.

Helena -What do you mean? HE EXPLAINS

No we had to get away from the environment we were in, now people complain because we are too close, we've tried role playing, he once put a pad lock on the door because I always said I would hitchhike and get away because of the MacDonald situation

Beaber asks, Do your family know about this murder thing? Yes, that's why they are so bitter. Sister at 19 or 20 ran off and got married and didn't tell anyone, my brother went into business managing shoe stores, we had to work for everything we got

Beaber asks, Why do you think you were the one to develop a problem with drugs?

Curiosity, it was easy to carry syringes out of the hospital where I was working,

I wanted to know if I could if I could stick the needle in my own arm

Beaber asks, Anything significant that I haven't asked about? I don't think so
I don't blame anyone for what's happened to me, I used to. But not now.

Beaber asks, Are you fearful of the group? Yes? Are they still together? Not as group, some are in New York, some in California, they can't be found to be charged with anything



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Chronology  -  Claims vs. Facts  - 
Various Documents  -  CID Records  -  FBI Records
April 6, 1970 Interview  -  Article 32 Hearing  -  Psychiatric/Psychological Data  -  DNA Results
July 23-24, 1970: John Cummings' exclusive interview with MacDonald  - 
Affidavits  -  Grand Jury Transcripts  -  1979 Trial Transcripts  -  MD License Revoked
1987: MacDonald v. McGinniss  -  Mildred Kassab sues MacDonald  -  Court Records

 Parole Hearing  -  Kassab's Work  -  Bob Stevenson Answers Your Questions
Photograph Pages 


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