TRANSCRIPTS

SCANNED DOCUMENTS

CONTACT ME

1979 JEFFREY MACDONALD CASE TRIAL TRANSCRIPT

August 17: Jim Gaddis

Note from Christina Masewicz: Directly after the testimony of Helena Stoeckley on August 17, 1979, six witnesses testified on voir dire, in the absence of the jury and alternates, per the bench discussions shown at the end of Stoeckley's testimony.  Jim Gaddis was the sec-ond of these witnesses to testify.


MR. SMITH:  Jim Gaddis is the next witness we would call.

(Whereupon, JAMES T. GADDIS was called as a witness, duly sworn, and testified as follows:)

MR. SMITH:  Mr. Gaddis, take the witness stand, please, sir.

THE COURT:  Just go ahead and tell us who he is and then ask the questions, will you, please?

MR. SMITH:  Your Honor, this witness is named Jim Gaddis.  He is a police officer in Nashville, Tennessee.


D I R E C T  E X A M I N A T I O N  2:13 p.m.

BY MR. SMITH:
Q  Mr. Gaddis, do you know Helena Stoeckley?
A  Yes, sir; I do.
Q  Did she ever make any statements to you about any murders which took place in Fayette-ville, North Carolina, in February 1970?
A  Yes, sir; she did.
Q  If you will move as quickly as you can, skip any of the preliminaries, and tell the Court ex-actly as you recall what she told you?
A  I talked with her on several occasions about the murders.  She said that she thought she had been there when the murders took place.  The night that the murders took place, she had tripped out on some mescaline and some LSD and she remembered being there.  On other occasions, she would say that she knew who had done it, but that she wasn't there.  She would get very depressed when she talked about it.  In fact, on several occasions, she would become so depressed that we could not even talk with her.  It led me to believe that she did talk--it led me to believe that she was there and had been there.
Q  Mr. Gaddis, did she seek you out or did you seek her out?
A  She sought me out.
Q  Would you tell the Court how that happened?
A  I had been working a special assignment hunting for a person who was assaulting women in the area where she lived.  I had driven by her house one night and she stopped me.  After talking several minutes with her, she said that she had someinformation she wanted to give me concerning some drugs that were being used in the area and also about a police officer on our department who was selling drugs to children.
Q  How did she get into the subject of the MacDonald murders?
A  After about two or three days of talking with her about the police officer and the other drugs being used in the area, she asked me if I could find out if she was still wanted for questioning in the MacDonald murders, and explained to me that she thought she was, but she wasn't sure, and told me who to contact, which I did.
Q  Did she then give you specific names?
A  She gave me the names of a boy named Greg.  She did not know his last name at the time--but also a gentleman named Bruce Fowler whom she had been with the night that she took the mescaline and the LSD, and who had a blue Ford Mustang.
Q  Did she ever make any further description to you about what occurred, giving you any specific examples or any other specific information?
A  The only information that she related to me was that she had been at the scene.  She felt she had been there, and that the clothes she wore while she was in Nashville fit the exact description of the clothes of the female that was involved in the murders themselves.
Q  When you talked with her, Mr. Gaddis, in your opinion, was she under the influence of any narcotic drugs?
A  At times she was and at times she wasn't.  I knew that she was dealing some.  I knew that she was using heroin at the time.
Q  During the times that she gave you information about the MacDonald case, was it your opinion she was under the influence of narcotic drugs?
A  She gave me information on several occasions.  At times, she was under the influence.
Most of the time when she gave me the information about the MacDonald murders, she was not.

MR. SMITH:  You may examine.


C R O S S - E X A M I N A T I O N  2:18 p.m.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q  Mr. Gaddis, is it true that Ms. Stoeckley has told you that on the 17th of February, she took LSD but that it had no effect on her?
A  That is correct.
Q  Is it not true that she has told you at one time that she remembers nothing about that evening, but that she does remember coming home in a blue automobile?
A  That is correct also.
Q  Isn't it true that at one time, since you have met her, she said that she cannot remember who she was with or where she went?
A  That is correct also.
Q  And she has told you, I believe, that at one time she knew who was involved, but did not give you any names?
A  That is correct also.
Q  And at another time, she said she only had suspicions of who was involved?
A  That's true.
Q  Isn't it true that at other times she sid Dr. MacDonald did the killings?
A  That is true also.
Q  In your opinion, has she ever simply said things to you but refused to explain them any further?
A  Yes, sir; she has.
Q  Has she ever described the inside of the MacDonald apartment to you?
A  No, sir; she didn't.
Q  Now, on the 23rd of April, 1971, did you have occasion to see her?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  At that time, did she say to you that she was not involved, but that she knew who was?
A  Yes, sir.
Q  And that on the same day, she said that she was there, and she witnessed the murders?
A  That is correct, but she had not been involved in the actual killings themselves.
Q  Right; and she has given you the name of at least two people, but no others?
A  That is correct.
Q  Has she ever said anything to you about any of the weapons that were used?
A  No, sir.
Q  Anything about candles?
A  No, sir.

MR. BLACKBURN:  Your Honor, that concludes our questioning.

THE COURT:  All right.  Call your next witness.

MR. SEGAL:  Mr. Underhill, please.

THE COURT:  While he is coming, let me ask Mr. Gaddis just one question.  On the basis of what this girl told you--these murders--had these murders happened in Nashville, would you have issued or signed a warrant for her?

THE WITNESS:  I am not sure, sir.  I have a feeling--like I say, I would have tried to have her indicted.

THE COURT:  You would have investigated further?

THE WITNESS:  I would have investigated further, and I would have indicted her; yes, sir.

THE COURT:  All right; call your next.

Go to top