The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site is a compendium of information about the Jeffrey MacDonald case. MacDonald was convicted in 1979 of the murders of his pregnant wife and two small daughters. He is serving three life sentences for that brutal crime.


The Murders of Colette, Kimberley and Kristen MacDonald
 

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site

1979 JEFFREY MACDONALD CASE TRIAL TRANSCRIPT
August 27, 1979: Dr. William P. Neal, Former Army doctor of Osteopathy

 

F U R T H E R P R O C E E D I N G S 10:00 a.m.

THIS CAUSE came on for further trial before The Honorable Franklin T. Dupree, Jr., United States Chief District Judge, and a jury, on Monday, August 27, 1979, at Raleigh, North Carolina.

(The following proceedings were held in the presence of the jury and alternates.)

THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Any further evidence for the Defendant in this case?

MR. SMITH: Yes, sir, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Call your witness.

MR. SMITH: The Defendant calls Dr. William Neal to the witness stand.

THE COURT: Let him come up.

(Whereupon, WILLIAM PAUL NEAL was called as a witness, duly sworn, and testified as follows:)


D I R E C T E X A M I N A T I O N 10:01 a.m.

BY MR. SMITH:
Q State your name, please, sir.
A William Paul Neal.
Q What do you do, Mr. (sic) Neal?
A I am Vice Chairman of the Department of Pediatrics at the North Texas State University, Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine, Health Science Center, Fort Worth, Texas.
Q So, you are a medical doctor?
A I am a doctor of Osteopathy, yes, sir.
Q Yes, sir. Dr. Neal, how long have you been in your present position?
A Three years, sir.
Q Where were you prior to that time?
A I was in private practice in Fort Worth, Texas for four years prior to that.
Q Dr. Neal, at any time were you stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina?
A Yes, sir; I was.
Q Do you recall about what month and what year that would have been?
A It was in the latter part of 1969, through October of 1970.
Q What were your duties at Fort Bragg?
A I was assigned to Womack Army Hospital as a General Medical Officer, sir.
Q Would you state whether or not you received any call on or about the 17th of February, 1970?
A Yes, sir; I did.
Q Do you recall where you were and what you were doing when you received that call?
A I was on duty in the Emergency Room as Professional Officer of the Day at Womack Army Hospital.
Q Do you remember who telephoned you?
A No, sir; I don't.
Q What was the nature of the call?
A It was a call concerning the request for my presence at a home on Post to examine some bodies for death.
Q All right. In response to that telephone call, Dr. Neal, what did you do?
A Initially I refused to respond to the call because my position was in the Emergency Room. I subsequently received a call from the Provost Marshal's Office who stated that they were requesting me to come out and examine bodies that were thought to be murdered. Because of the nature of the business, I proceeded to the home and examined the bodies.
Q Dr. Neal, I take it at that time you had received no training in pathology or forensic pathology?
A That is correct.
Q What was your purpose, then, in going to the home?
A Really to determine whether there was death indeed.
Q So, actually you were then to just pronounce the bodies dead; is that correct?
A That is right.
Q Do you remember about what time you received the telephone call?
A It was after -- approximately 3:30 in the morning.
Q And what time did you arrive at the home?
A Approximately 4:30.
Q Was anyone with you when you arrived at the home?
A Yes, a driver of some sort.
Q Military personnel?
A Yes, sir.
Q What did you observe when you first arrived at the home at Castle Drive?
A What did I -- well, I was taken to the door. And I was introduced to a CID investigator who proceeded to take me into the bedrooms of the home and show me the bodies.
Q All right. Now, when you went to the bedrooms in the home, what did you do initially?
A Initially I made a cursory examination. The CID asked me not to touch any of the materials in the house. I did a cursory examination of all three bodies to determine if there were any signs of life. I was then taken out into another area of the house and asked to wait until pictures were taken of the bodies before proceeding with a more thorough examination.
Q All right. Now, after -- well, first, let me ask you this question: did you see photographs taken?
A No, sir; I did not.
Q You were informed that photographs were going to be taken or were being taken; is that correct?
A That is correct.
Q After that, what did you do, Dr. Neal?
A After -- later, another investigator came in and informed me that the photographs were completed and I could now proceed with the examinations.
Q All right. Now, do you recall whether there were other people in that home on the occasion in which you were there other than the ones you have described already? That is, some one person or two people in charge?
A Yes, sir. There were several -- many people in the house actually.
Q Did you see any people who were not in uniform?
A Yes, sir; I did.
Q And did you see people who were in uniform?
A Yes, sir; I did.
Q Do you recall approximately how many people you saw in the home?
A Not by exact number; no, sir.
Q How many would you say were there?
A Greater than 15.
Q Greater than 15?
A Yes, sir.
Q And they were in the house at the time you were there?
A Yes, sir.
Q All at one time?
A Yes, sir.
Q All right. Now, to which bedroom did you go first, if you recall?
A During the cursory examination, I don't recall, sir. No, sir.
Q After the cursory examination and when you went back for the second time, to which bedroom did you go first, if you recall?
A We went to the rear bedroom, which was a child's bedroom.
Q The youngest child's bedroom?
A Yes, sir.
Q All right. In our discussions to date, have you and I referred to that as the north bedroom?
A Yes, sir; we have.
Q You call it the rear bedroom?
A That is correct, sir.
Q At any rate, Dr. Neal, was that the bedroom of the youngest child, as you recall?
A Yes, sir; it was.
Q Now, when you went back to the bedroom for the second time, that being the bedroom of the youngest child, what was your purpose this time in going there?
A To pronounce the bodies dead -- to actually determine if there was death and to try and determine a cursory cause of death.
Q All right. Now, in order to accomplish that purpose, Dr. Neal, would it be necessary to touch the bodies?
A Yes, sir; it would.
Q What things would you do ordinarily to make a determination that a body is dead?
A We would feel for pulses in the peripheral areas. We would listen to the heart and lungs, and we would examine the eyes for pupil dilatation.
Q In making those examinations, what parts of the body of the young child did you touch?
A We would have touched the head and the eyelids to determine the pupil dilatation. I would have checked one of the radial pulses on the extremities of the arms. I would have touched the neck. And I would have rolled the body to check the back side of the body. And I honestly don't know which portion of the body I would have touched to do that -- probably the shoulders and chest area.
Q All right. Now, in rolling the body, will you describe what you did with the young child?
A Yes, sir. I was standing at the -- and it is difficult for me to describe it. The bed was against the wall, as I recall. And I rolled the child out towards the room, whichever the position was. I honestly don't recall.
Q All right. Did you pull any bed clothing back?
A Yes, sir; we did.
Q Did you actually look at the skin on the chest so that you had to lift the pajamas or any other garments?
A Yes, sir: we did.
Q Now, did you touch the child's face?
A Yes, sir; I did.
Q After touching the body and rolling the body as you have described, Dr. Neal, did you make any effort to return that body to the position in which you found it?
A No, sir; I did not.
Q Dr. Neal, would you state whether or not you have reviewed your testimony of the Article 32 proceeding?
A I have reviewed it; yes, sir.
Q Did you, in touching the body of the youngest child, Kris, get any blood on your hands?
A I testified to that in my Article 32 hearing. But at this point, I really do not recall that.
Q Do you have any reason to disagree with your Article 32 testimony?
A No, sir; I do not.
Q Now, Dr. Neal, you have had an opportunity, I believe, to look at that testimony?
A Yes, sir; I have.
Q Will you permit me to read that testimony to you now?
A Certainly.
Q "...Question: Do you recall specifically any time noting that you did receive blood on your hands during this examination? Answer: Yes, I did." Do you have any reason to disagree with that?
A No, sir: I do not.

MR. SMITH: Let me inform Counsel. That is page 345 of Dr. Neal's testimony. "...Question: Do you recall specifically in reference to the first bedroom you went to in your examination receiving blood? Answer: Yes; I did." Do you have any reason to disagree with that?
A No, sir.
Q "...Question: Did you have occasion to wash your hands or scrub your hands after you did that? Answer: Not at the house; no. Question: Did you feel it necessary or of importance to wash your hands in reference to what your primary responsibilities were? In other words, your primary responsibilities were to determine death. Was it necessary to wash your hands in making the determination between the bodies? Answer: No; it wasn't." You have no reason, I take it, then, to disagree with any of that testimony concerning the blood on your hands?
A No, sir; I have not.
Q Now, Dr. Neal, after you examined the body of Kris, the youngest child, do you recall to which bedroom you went next?
A We went to the master bedroom in the home, sir.
Q Now, when you went to the master bedroom what did you observe, if you recall?
A I observed a body of an adult female lying on the floor, and the bed in the corner -- the usual room furnishings, et cetera.
Q Dr. Neal, do you recall anything about a blue pajama top on that body?
A Yes, sir; I do.
Q Thinking back about the scene that you observed, do you remember the location of that blue pajama top?
A It was somewhere in the vicinity of the chest on the adult female.
Q Do you remember any towel on the body of Colette MacDonald?
A Yes, sir; it was over the -- I'm sorry.
Q Go ahead. I was going to ask you next where you recall seeing it?
A It was over the abdomen and the pelvic area of the female.
Q Now, do you have any recollection as to the exact location of those items?
A No, sir.
Q What did you do with the body of Colette MacDonald?
A I again went through the procedure of checking for the dilatation of the pupils, palpating for the carotid pulse, the radial pulse, and listening to the heart and lungs.
Q Now, Dr. Neal, directing your attention to the floor area around the body of Colette MacDonald, do you any recollection of observing an outline that would have been made by any kind of a marking instrument around her body on the rug?
A No, sir; I do not.
Q What did you do with respect to the hands of Colette MacDonald, if you recall?
A I moved one of the arms to palpate the radial pulse, and I believe that was her left hand. I was standing on her left side.
Q And in order to palpate that pulse -- if that is what you call it?
A Yes, sir.
Q How far up did you lift the hand?
A Just a few inches off the floor, sir.
Q Now, what did you do next with Colette's body?
A After determining that there were no visible signs of life, I tried to determine as best as possible, clinically, what the causes of death might have been.
Q And how did you do that?
A Observed wounds on the body, in addition to rolling the body and checking for wounds on the backside of the body.
Q How did you observe the wounds on her chest, do you remember -- that is, what physically you did to anything over her chest in order to enable you to see wounds?
A Yes, sir; we just removed what clothing there was over there, lifting it and then replacing it, and then later rolling the body towards me, which would have been touching the right shoulder and rolling the body and checking over the back side.
Q All right, sir. Dr. Neal, I take it, then, what you are saying is that you picked up the blue pajama top and moved it; would that be correct?
A Yes, sir; that is correct.
Q Do you recall what you did with it when you picked it up and moved it; that is, where you placed it physically?
A I really just -- I believe I just held it in my hand. I couldn't testify to it -- it has been fairly long.
Q When you placed the blue pajama top back on the body of Colette MacDonald, did you make any effort to replace it in exactly the same position it was in when you found it?
A No, sir; I did not.
Q Did you move the white towel in any way?
A Not by necessarily touching the towel; no, sir. I did roll the body and the towel may have moved during the rolling of the body; yes, sir.
Q Now, Dr. Neal, would you describe for the jury the manner in which you rolled the body?
A I believe I kneeled beside the body because of the cumbersome position that we were in, and grasped the right arm and shoulder, and rolled the body towards me, which would have been up on the body's left side.
Q How far did you roll the body up?
A To the lateral position which -- far enough to a lateral position up on its side, in order to observe the entire back area of the body.
Q Did anyone assist you in holding the body up while you looked at the back area?
A Not that I recall, sir.
Q In order to look at the back area, was it necessary for you to pull up any garment on Colette's body?
A I don't recall that, sir.
Q Now, after you were finished examining the back of that body, did you let the body just roll back down in a natural sort of way?
A Yes, sir; I just let the body roll. Yes, sir.
Q Did you make any effort then, Dr. Neal, to return that body to the exact position it was in when you first saw it?
A No, sir; I did not.
Q Did you notice, Dr. Neal, whether any of the blood you got on your hands from Kris's room got on the body or any of the garments of Colette MacDonald?
A I don't recall, sir.
Q What did you do next, Dr. Neal?
A I then proceeded to the front bedroom, where another child was found dead in bed.
Q All right, now, I take it that you do not recall washing your hands at any point on the way from Colette MacDonald's room to the room of Kim?
A That is correct, sir.
Q When you got to the room of Kim, what did you observe?
A The child was lying, I believe, on her back, somewhat in an awkward position with her head lying over the side of the bed.
Q Yes, sir; and would you describe for the jury what things you did to her body?
A Similar to what I did with the other bodies. I touched her eyes to check to see what the pupilar dilatation was; I checked a radial pulse, and checked for heart and lung signs again.
Q Did you roll her body in any way?
A Yes, sir; I did.
Q And was that necessary for you to examine her chest or her back?
A Yes, sir; it was.
Q And in examining her body, was it necessary to pull up any garments to actually look at the skin area of her chest and back?
A Yes, sir; it was necessary to move those.
Q And when you completed your examination of Kim, did you make any effort to replace that body exactly in the same location it was when you found it?
A No, sir; I did not.
Q After you had completed that examination, Dr. Neal, what did you do?
A I was escorted to the door, and I returned to my duty post.
Q All right; now, did you make any written notations at the request of the CID as to what you did with the bodies in any way?
A No, sir; I did not.
Q You were never requested to do that?
A No, sir.
Q At any time during your examination of the bodies of the children, did you observe any body outline made with a marking pencil of any kind?
A No, sir; I do not recall them.
Q Dr. Neal, you have mentioned that there were several people in the apartment. Did you see from time to time a number of people walking around in the living room?
A As I recall, sir, there were a number of people in the -- as you entered the front door to the left away from the bedroom area -- there were a number of people in what appeared to be some sort of cordoned area, although there was no rope. They were apparently at bay of some sort, and appeared to be rather spectators. Then there were other uniformed people walking around the apartment, apparently doing some sort of work.
Q Now, I take it, Dr. Neal, that you made no effort to replace hands and arms that you lifted in your examination in the place where you first found them?
A No, sir; I didn't.
Q And you made no effort to replace bed clothing that you had to move from the children in the place you originally found them?
A No, sir.
Q And you made no effort to replace body clothing in the place you originally found them?
A That is correct.
Q And you made no effort to replace the blue pajama top to its original location?
A That is correct.
Q And you made no effort to replace the white towel in its original location?
A That is correct, sir.
Q And you made no effort to replace the bodies in their original location?
A That is correct.
Q And you made no effort to avoid transferring blood from one body to another?
A That is correct.

MR. SMITH: You may examine the witness.


C R O S S - E X A M I N A T I O N 10:19 a.m.

MR. MURTAGH:
Q Dr. Neal, let me ask you, how long had you been in the Army as of February 17, 1970?
A I would have been in for 15 months, sir.
Q And during the course of that time, how many crime scenes had you responded to?
A Zero.
Q Would it be accurate to say this was the first one?
A I'm sorry; I didn't hear the question.
Q This was the first one?
A That is correct, sir.
Q Now, I believe you were met at the door, is that correct?
A That is correct.
Q Do you recall the name of the agent who met you at the door?
A I'm sorry; I don't.
Q Could you describe him?
A No; I couldn't.
Q Does he wear glasses?
A I could not describe any feature of him.
Q All right; and I believe you testified that you had to wait while the bodies were photographed?
A That is correct, sir.
Q Do you know which photographer that was?
A No, sir; I don't remember.
Q Do you know how many photographers were on the scene?
A No, sir; I never saw the photographers.
Q All right; but at any rate, you had to wait while the bodies were being photographed; is that correct?
A I was told to wait; yes, sir.
Q How did you feel about that?
A I don't recall any feeling at all one way or the other, sir.
Q Let me ask you -- I believe you said you were a Doctor of Osteopathy?
A That is correct, sir.
Q As opposed to a medical doctor?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you feel that that was perhaps endangering the life or lives of anybody at the crime scene?
A No, sir; a cursory examination had already been done, and the bodies had been pretty well --
Q (Interposing) Sir, I can't hear you?
A A cursory examination for physical signs of life had already been performed without touching the bodies, and there appeared to be no life. I was not disturbed.
Q So you looked at them first and they looked dead; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q You did not touch them when you were doing this cursory examination?
A That is correct.
Q You went to Kristen's room -- the north bedroom -- first?
A I don't recall, during the cursory examination. After I was told the photographs were taken, yes, sir; I did start.
Q Do I understand -- well, let me ask you -- I will back up. At the door, what instructions, if any, were you given?
A I was, I believe, instructed not to touch anything in the house until I was told to do otherwise.
Q Now, how did you get from the front door to the north bedroom?
A We walked through the living room and down the hallway.
Q Okay; when you say "we," was there an agent with you?
A Yes, sir; I was assigned an agent.
Q When you got to the north bedroom, did you go in the bedroom on the left?
A I am sorry; when I first arrived, I honestly don't know the route that was taken, except that we walked back into the bedroom area. I don't know the sequence of rooms that we went to at that point. I just don't recall.
Q Okay; now, I am asking you -- not with respect to your cursory examination -- which, if I understand your testimony, you have very little recollection of?
A That is correct, sir.
Q But now you are in the north bedroom?
A That is correct, sir.
Q And an agent took you there?
A Yes, sir.
Q Would you describe what appeared, if you can, to the left of the head of the bed in the north bedroom?
A No, sir; I could not.
Q Did anything strike your attention?
A No, sir.
Q Just the body?
A Just the body; yes, sir.
Q You went into the room?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay; were you directed not to step on blood on the floor?
A I don't recall, sir.
Q You had your shoes on, I take it?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, when you got to the bed -- let me ask you, how many agents were present in the room?
A I have no idea, sir.
Q Well, are you saying -- could there have been more than one?
A Yes, sir; there could have been.
Q But you don't know?
A No: I don't.
Q And you got to the bed and you touched the body; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q After you touched the body, what, if anything, did the agent in the room say to you?
A Nothing that I recall, sir.
Q You don't recall anything being said to you?
A No, sir.
Q Do you recall -- let me ask you, are you saying that there was absolute silence, or whatever was said, you do not recall?
A Whatever was said, I do not recall.
Q Okay; would you agree or disagree that you were told not to touch the body?

MR. SMITH: OBJECTION. He has answered that question.

THE COURT: Well, you know, we do everything in duplicate. Just let him answer it again.

THE WITNESS: I was originally told not to touch the bodies. After the photographs were taken, I was told I could do anything necessary to examine the bodies.

MR. MURTAGH:
Q Did any agent admonish you in any way not to try and determine what killed the child, but simply whether the child was dead or not?
A No, sir; they did not.
Q You don't recall that?
A No; they did not admonish me.
Q I see. Now, let me ask you -- with respect to determining the cause of death -- in your opinion, what would be the professional steps that you would take?
A I think a clinical examination would have to be done. I am not a forensic pathologist --
Q (Interposing) I'm sorry -- to determine whether life was present?
A Okay; I think you would have to see if the pupils were responsive. I think you would have to check to see if the pulses were present. I think you would have to listen for heart and lung sounds.
Q Okay; if you did not do all of those three things, would you say that professionally you were not doing your duty?
A No, sir; I would not say that at all.
Q Then those three things are not necessary to determine whether life was present?
A I am not understanding your question, sir. I am sorry.
Q Well, I am asking you, in your opinion, what things are necessary to determine whether life is present?
A I think those things are necessary; yes, sir.
Q Would you say that is your professional responsibility to make those determinations?
A Yes, sir.
Q You were going to adhere to your professional responsibility; is that correct -- in determining whether life was present?
A At the scene?
Q Yes.
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, you say you may have gotten blood on your hands in the north bedroom; is that correct?
A No, sir: in my Article 32 testimony, I did indeed state that. I honestly don't recall that at this point.
Q Okay; well, you said -- are you saying that you have no independent recollection?
A Yes, sir; at this point.
Q Of getting blood on your hands?
A Yes, sir.
Q Would it be accurate to say that if you got blood on your hands, it would have been from the body of the child?
A Yes, sir.
Q So the blood on your hands would have been the blood type of that child in that room?
A If the blood were taken from that body; yes, sir.
Q If you had it?
A Yes, sir; that is right.
Q Do you know what blood type that child had?
A No, sir; I have no idea.
Q Now, you went next to the master bedroom; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q And were the agents with you?
A The agent that was assigned to me -- yes, sir, he was.
Q You testified you saw the normal room furniture; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q Will you describe the area of the master bed?
A It was -- as you entered from the hallway, it was to the right and in the far corner of the room.
Q Did anything strike you about the master bed?
A Yes, sir; there was something written on the bedpost.
Q Now, to your immediate right as you entered the master bedroom -- what, if anything, did you see on the floor?
A I honestly don't know, sir.
Q You went to the body; is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q And was the body adjacent to or close to any object in that room?
A It was adjacent -- close to a chair -- between a chair and a bed of some sort.
Q Do you remember what color the chair was?
A No, sir.
Q What part of the body did you go to?
A I went to the left side of the body, up near the thoracic area -- the chest area.
Q What did you touch?
A I touched the head and the chest and the right shoulder and the right thoracic area.
Q Did you at any time go around the head of the body so that you were looking down the body lengthwise?
A Not to my recollection; no, sir.
Q Well, are you saying it didn't happen -- or if it did, you can't recall?
A I don't remember.
Q Did you touch the area under here (referring to the neck)?
A Yes, sir; I did.
Q How many agents were in the room at this time?
A I don't know, sir.
Q Did any of the agents say anything?
A I don't recall that, sir.
Q And what did you do next?
A After examining this body, we proceeded to the third bedroom and walked into the room and examined a body in, I guess, the front bedroom.
Q Okay; now, with respect -- you say you rolled over the body in the master bedroom?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did the agents just stand there?
A I don't recall what the agents did, sir.
Q Okay; now, you say you held the pajama top in your hand; is that correct? You lifted up the blue pajama top?
A In the master bedroom; yes, sir.
Q Right; and you rolled the body over?
A Well, in two different motions; yes, sir.
Q I thought I understood you to say you held the pajama top in your hand?
A I moved the pajama top to examine a portion of the body; yes, sir.
Q Okay?
A Then subsequently I rolled the body, and I don't believe I was holding the blue pajama top at that time necessarily.
Q I see. Okay; now, would it be accurate to say that if you rolled the body, you rolled it forward and the pajama top would he between the body and the area underneath the body? Do you understand what I am saying?
A No, sir.
Q Dr. Neal, let me show you Government 160(a), and ask you if you recognize that scene?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. Do you know whether that picture was taken before or after you examined the body?
A No, sir. I have no way of knowing.
Q Okay. You would have rolled the body forward; is that correct?
A I would have rolled the body laterally; yes, sir.
Q Well --
A (Interposing) I would have rolled the body onto the left side.
Q Onto the left side? So, would it be accurate to say that the pajama top that was on the body would have been pushed up; is that correct? In other words, it would have moved with the body?
A I don't know if I can answer that, sir. I presume it would.
Q Are you finished your answer?
A Yeah.
Q While the body was up, as you say, you didn't take the pajama top and shake it out in the area underneath the body; did yon?
A No, sir; I did not.
Q Okay. Now, with respect to any blood that would have been transferred in the master bedroom from your examination of Kristen, it would have gotten on what object, if anything, sir?
A I don't know that, sir.
Q Okay. It would have been the same type of blood as the child in the north bedroom; is that correct?
A That would be presumably correct.
Q Because you had not been to the south bedroom -- the front bedroom -- at this time; is that correct?
A I had been, but I hadn't touched anything.
Q You hadn't touched anything?
A That is right.
Q Okay. Would it be accurate to say that you could not have transferred blood from the child in the front or south bedroom -- Kimberly's -- to any object in that room?
A Yes, sir. I believe that would be correct.
Q Now, with respect to this towel, do you recall what kind of towel it was?
A No, sir; I don't. A white towel of some sort.
Q Okay. Have you ever heard the term "Hilton bathmat"?
A This morning from Mr. Smith.
Q Okay. Did you wipe any instruments of any kind off on that towel?
A No, sir; I did not.
Q Dr. Neal, did you take this pajama top and go to the area -- see this object depicted in the right-hand corner?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you take that pajama top at any time, sir, and go over to that little -- could you tell us what it is?
A No. I have no idea what it is.
Q Okay. Would it be accurate to say that it appears to be a sheet?
A It could be; yes, sir.
Q Okay. Did you take the pajama top and in any way entangle it in the sheet?
A No, sir; I did not.
Q Did you take the pajama top outside and shake it out the back door?
A No, sir.
Q Okay. Did you take it over to the area where "pig" was written on the headboard of the bed?
A No, sir.
Q And shake it over there?
A No, sir.
Q Okay. Dr. Neal, let me show you Government Exhibit 145(a). Do you recognize this scene?
A Yes, sir. I believe that is the scene in the rear bedroom, which I believe has been designated the north bedroom; is that correct?
Q Yes, sir. Do you recall, sir, whether that photograph was taken before or after you examined the body?
A I have no way of knowing.
Q Excuse me. You are saying, sir, that you don't know whether that photograph was taken before or after you examined Kristen?
A No, sir; I don't.
Q Okay. At any time, sir, did you flick any blood up on the wall above Kristen's bed?
A No, sir.
Q Now, Dr. Neal, do you recall your Article 32 testimony?
A After reading it, somewhat; yes, sir.
Q Okay. And do you recall being qualified by Captain Somers, the Government Counsel at the Article 32 investigation?
A Qualified as?
Q Yes, sir. Do you recall how that happened?
A I am sorry.
Q As a witness? Let me ask you -- strike that. Do you recall taking the stand at the Article 32?
A Yes; I do.
Q And you were sworn?
A That is correct.
Q And you were asked, you know, "Are you in the service," and a certain number of questions?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you were asked what degree you hold, I believe?
A Yes, sir. That is right.
Q Do you recall what you said?
A As to the degree?
Q Yes, sir?
A Yes, sir, Doctor of Osteopathy.
Q Doctor of Osteopathy? Okay. And at that time, did Captain Somers tender you as an expert in the field of medical science to the investigating officer?
A Yes, sir; he did.
Q What happened next, if you recall?
A Questions were asked.
Q Let me ask you: do you recall -- are you saying, sir, that you went right into your testimony about what you did that night?
A No, sir. Questions were asked. After reading the Article 32, Captain Somers qualified further what a Doctor of Osteopathy was.
Q Yeah.
A And then questions were then asked subsequently.
Q Okay. Do you recall being asked -- let me read something on page 331: "...Captain Somers; I tender to the investigating officer this witness as an expert in the field of medicine. Colonel Rock: What is Osteopathy, or whatever the word is?" Do you recall that?
A Yes, sir; I do.
Q And then: "...Captain Somers: Would you like to explain that a little bit?" And then you explained what the field of Osteopathy is. Would it be accurate to say that Colonel Rock at that time didn't know what an Osteopath was?
A I don't know that, sir.
Q Okay. Would it be accurate to say that Captain Somers then went on to qualify you as an expert in the field of medicine, although your degree is in Osteopathy?

MR. SMITH: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MR. MURTAGH:
Q Now, Dr. Neal, with respect to the people you saw in the house that were not in uniform -- do you recall that?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. Do you know a Provost Marshal investigator by the name of Hagan Rossi?
A No, sir; I do not.
Q Okay. Do you know an ambulance driver by the name of Paulson?
A No, sir; I do not.
Q Okay. Would it be accurate to say that of the people you saw in the house, except for the MPs in uniform, you would have no personal knowledge as to what their job or duty assignment was?
A That is correct.
Q Now, Dr. Neal, you said that you were never asked to write a statement as to what you had done by the CID; is that correct?
A That is correct.
Q Do you recall attending a medical conference at the CID office some time prior to the Article 32 investigation?
A No, sir; I don't.
Q Are you saying you were never interviewed at any time by a CID agent?
A The CID -- the following morning, while I was on duty at the Medical Clinic at Womack -- the CID came in and took my fingerprints. And subsequently, I believe, the only person I talked to was someone from the JAG Office. There was a -- it was not really a medical conference. The Army called a forensic pathologist from, I believe, Baltimore. And he talked to me for a short period of time. But other than that, no, I don't recall any interrogatories to that effect.
Q Would that be Dr. Russell Fisher?
A I could not recall the name, sir.
Q At this medical conference, did you tell anybody that you had moved the bodies?
A I don't recall. Your reference to "conference" implies several people being present. I don't remember several people being present. I remember an interview with the doctor. And that was all.
Q Prior to the Article 32 testimony, had you told anyone that you had moved the bodies?
A I don't recall that either, sir.

MR. MURTAGH: I have no further questions.

MR. SMITH: We have no further questions of the witness, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Let me ask the doctor a couple of questions.


E X A M I N A T I O N 10:41 a.m.

BY THE COURT:
Q I understood you to say there were about 15 people in that house -- your best estimate?
A Yes, sir; that would be a very approximate number. I wouldn't commit to a number of 15; but there were a large number.
Q Now, there are 16 people seated in the jury box here, minus one -- are you saying it was that many people in that house?
A Yes, sir.
Q I'm not questioning you; I'm just interested. Do you recall anything -- any impression that you have as to whether or not these bodies that you examined were warm or cold or just what?
A No, sir; I do not.

THE COURT: Does that inspire further interrogation by anybody?

(No response.)

THE COURT: Call your next witness.

MR. SMITH: You may come down. Thank you, Dr. Neal.

(Witness excused.)

 

 

Home  -  Contact  -  Scholarship Fund  -  New Uploads  -  Christina's Corner  -  Resource Page
Chronology  -  Claims vs. Facts  - 
Various Documents  -  CID Records  -  FBI Records
April 6, 1970 Interview  -  Article 32 Hearing  -  Psychiatric/Psychological Data  -  DNA Results
July 23-24, 1970: John Cummings' exclusive interview with MacDonald  - 
Polygraphs
Affidavits  -  Grand Jury Transcripts  -  1979 Trial Transcripts  -  MD License Revoked
1987: MacDonald v. McGinniss  -  Mildred Kassab sues MacDonald  -  Court Records

 Parole Hearing  -  Kassab's Work  -  Bob Stevenson Answers Your Questions
Photograph Pages 

 


Go to top