The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site is a compendium of information about the Jeffrey MacDonald case. MacDonald was convicted in 1979 of the murders of his pregnant wife and two small daughters. He is serving three life sentences for that brutal crime.


The Murders of Colette, Kimberley and Kristen MacDonald
 

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site

1979 JEFFREY MACDONALD CASE TRIAL TRANSCRIPT
July 19, 1979: Richard Tevere, Former MP
 

F U R T H E R P R O C E E D I N G S 11:25 a.m.

(The following proceedings were held in the presence of the jury and alternates.)

THE COURT: The Government may call its first witness.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, the Government calls Richard Tevere.

MR. SEGAL: Your Honor, before the witness is sworn may we see Your Honor at sidebar.

THE COURT: Yes.


B E N C H C O N F E R E N C E

MR. SEGAL: If Your Honor pleases, we are now requesting that any other Jencks Act materials that the Government has in regard to Mr. Tevere prior to his testimony be revealed to us and made available to us -- all statements, all testimony.

MR. BLACKBURN: We have given to the Defense all that we have.

(Bench Conference terminated.)


Whereupon, RICHARD DENNIS TEVERE was called as a witness, duly sworn, and testified as follows:

D I R E C T E X A M I N A T I O N 11:28 a.m.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q State your name and tell us where do you live?
A Richard Dennis Tevere; New York.
Q How long have you lived there?
A Thirty-one years.
Q What do you do for a living?
A I am Vice President of an advertising firm.
Q Where is that firm?
A Mount Vernon, New York.
Q How long have you been so employed?
A Nine years.
Q Prior to your employment in that capacity, where did you live?
A 2824 Collis Place in the Bronx.
Q Have you ever been to Fort Bragg, North Carolina?
A Yes, I have.
Q When was that?
A I was stationed at Fort Bragg when I was in the Army, from December of 1968 until August of 1970.
Q In what capacity were you stationed?
A I was a military policeman at Fort Bragg and was assigned to duties as patrolling the Post, traffic duties, town patrol, bus patrol.
Q What is your educational background?
A I completed 16 years.
Q Does that include college?
A High school and four years of college.
Q With respect to your work as a military policeman, what training, if any, have you had, or did you have?
A After basic training at Fort Jackson, I was sent to Fort Gordon, Georgia, and we were trained in various military police duties, taught somewhat about the law, self defense, taught to shoot different weapons, taught first aid, and several other things.
Q What training, if any, did you have with respect to preservation of evidence at a crime scene?
A During our training, we were taught that if we were at a crime scene, or when called to a crime scene --

MR. SEGAL: (Interposing) I'm sorry, I cannot hear the word.

THE WITNESS: If we were called to go to a crime scene, or a scene of a crime, to observe what we see, preserve all evidence, help the injured -- if we were able to do so -- and basically make sure that you did nothing to disturb or alter what you have seen.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Directing your attention to the late evening of the 16th of February, 1970, as a result of your assignment at Fort Bragg as a military policeman, did you have occasion to be on duty as a military policeman that night?
A Yes, I did.
Q What was your duty that evening?
A I was assigned to a patrol on Fort Bragg, the 11:30 - midnight shift to 7:30 in the morning.
Q What was the total area of patrol at Fort Bragg which you were to be conducting?
A The area that I was patrolling was about a two-mile square area of the main post of Fort Bragg.
Q What areas, if you know, were covered in that two-mile area?
A The Main Post, Corregidor Courts, and Anzio Acres.
Q Who, if anyone else, was present with you that night?
A My partner on patrol was Specialist Mario D'Amore.
Q You were riding together?
A Yes, we were. We were in an army jeep.
Q Who was driving?
A I was.
Q During your patrol from the time you came on duty up until about 3:00 o'clock a.m. on the 17th of February, what did you have occasion to observe?
A From 11:30 at night until approximately 3:00 or 3:30 in the morning, the Post was very quiet. The weather -- it was a rainy, windy night, a cold, damp night -- and there was very little activity on the Post.
Q By "little activity," what do you mean?
A Very few cars, no heavy traffic, virtually no one was walking around because of the intensity of the rain.
Q Now may I direct, Mr. Tevere, your attention to approximately quarter until four, or 3:45 a.m. on the 17th. Did you have occasion to receive a call over your car radio?
A Yes, we did.
Q What was the nature of that call?
A We were told there was a domestic disturbance at 544 Castle Drive, and another patrol was given the call. I answered and said that I would back them up,
Q And did you do that?
A Yes, we did.
Q Approximately how long, if you know, did it take you to get to Castle Drive?
A About four minutes -- three or four minutes.

MR. BLACKBURN: May I approach the witness, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Tevere, let me, if I can, put on this easel an exhibit that has been marked -- let me show you what has been marked as Government Exhibit 968, and ask you if you can identify that, sir.

(Government Exhibit 968 was marked for identification.)

A Yes, I can. That is Corregidor Courts and Anzio Acre housing area on Fort Bragg.
Q Let me hand you this marker and if you will, if you can, trace on that exhibit -- trace on that exhibit, if you can, Mr. Tevere -- where you were when you got your call, the route you took to Castle Drive.
A Where I was at was not on the map, but I was in the area somewhat up on here which would be Riley Road.

MR. SEGAL: Excuse me, Your Honor, could you have the witness perhaps, or the Government perhaps, give us some compass directions? Then we could understand further for the record better what we are talking about.

THE COURT: Why don't we do that? I would also suggest that the map be oriented so that all of the jurors can see it. About half of them are not able to see it in its present position. Well, now you might put it back a little so the witness can see it too.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Tevere, I am going to place on this easel over here Government Exhibit 967 and ask if you can identify that, please.

(Government Exhibit No. 967 was marked for identification.)

A Yes, I can. That is a housing view of Corregidor Courts on Fort Bragg.
Q Now, if you will, on the exhibit which I just pointed out to you -- will you point out the north-south direction, if you would.
A This would be north, south, west, east (indicating).
Q And, if you could, correlate Government Exhibit 967 -- the one over here on the right -- to the photograph right next to you.
A Okay. I was in this area on Riley Road and proceeded south to Honeycutt Road. I then made a left, came across Honeycutt Road, which would be in an easterly direction, came east on Honeycutt Road. I then made a left and proceeded south on North Lucas. I made a right on Spear Drive, headed east on Spear Drive up to Castle Drive, at which point I made another right and headed east to 544 Castle Drive, which is right here.
Q During the trip from where you were called to Castle Drive, how many moving vehicles did you see as you went to there?
A I saw no civilian vehicles. I only saw two military vehicles.
Q How many pedestrians or people walking around did you see?
A I saw nobody.
Q When you arrived at Castle Drive, what did you do?
A When I got to 544 Castle Drive, there was a military police lieutenant and another military policeman at the front door of Castle Drive. I went up to the front door with them and spoke for five seconds or so; and we found out we could not gain entry into the house through the front door.
Q Why was that?
A The front door was locked; so I took a flashlight from one of the other MPs and ran around the back of 544 Castle Drive and entered the house through a rear door, a screen door.
Q Was this the first or the second door that you came to as you went around the back of the house?
A It was the first door I came to.
Q Was the screen door opened or closed?
A The screen door was closed, but the wooden door inside the house was open.
Q Proceed. What did you do next?
A I walked through a utility room.
Q Was the light on or off in the utility room?
A It was off.

MR. SEGAL: I could not hear what he said.

THE COURT: Off.

THE WITNESS: Off. I walked through the utility room into the master bedroom.

MR. SEGAL: Will Your Honor indulge us for a minute? I think we might be able to expedite something.

(Counsel confer.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Tevere, if you would come down from the witness box to what has been marked as Government Exhibit Number 1, and bring the marker with you.

(Government Exhibit No. 1 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q And, if you would, sir, point out to the jury the door that you went into through the back way.
A I came around from the front of the house around the side and I entered through this door back here.
Q That is where the screen door was?
A Yes.
Q The first room, I take it then, is the utility room?
A Yes, this room right here.
Q What did you do after you went into the utility room?
A I proceeded into the bedroom.
Q What did you see when you went into the bedroom?
A I saw a male and a female lying on the floor, and the female was covered with blood.
Q What else did you observe at that time in the room, if anything?
A Nothing else.
Q Okay, who else, if anyone, was in the apartment at that time with you?
A Nobody.
Q I am speaking of MPs.
A There was nobody else in the apartment other than myself. I was alone.
Q What did you do after you saw the two bodies in the bedroom?
A I ran out of the back of the house.
Q What did you do after you ran outside the back of the house?
A I ran out the same door I came in and went over to the side of the house where I saw another MP.
Q Do you know who that was?
A That's Lieutenant Paulk.
Q What did you say, if anything?
A I told him to call Womack Army Hospital and to call the CID and the PMI because I thought someone had been severely hurt or stabbed.
Q Then what did you do?
A I turned around and proceeded back into the house through the same door.
Q Were you the first or second one back in the house?
A I was the first one back in.
Q After you came back into the house -- you may resume your seat -- after you came back into the house the second time, where did you go?
A Back into the master bedroom.
Q How long did you stay there?
A Maybe a minute or two.
Q What did you do while you were in the master bedroom?
A I observed Captain MacDonald, but I did not know at that time it was Captain MacDonald. I observed a male lying next to a female; and at that time Mr. MacDonald was lying on his side, laid back over on his back, and he said that intruders had come into his house.
Q Okay, now, Mr. Tevere, at this point in the apartment what other MPs, if any, were present?
A Spec. 4 Mica came in behind me with Lieutenant Paulk and a third MP also. I think Spec. 4 Morris --

MR. SEGAL: (Interposing) I am sorry. I beg your pardon. He is tending to drop his voice. Cannot get these names.

THE WITNESS: Specialist Morris.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Where were they located inside the house?
A They were behind me.
Q Were they all in the master bedroom?
A Mica, myself, and Lieutenant Paulk were. Morris, I think, was in the doorway or the utility room.
Q After you came into the master bedroom, where else, if anywhere, did you go in the house?
A Well, at that point I went down the hallway.
Q If you would come down and point at where you went.
A I proceeded through this doorway down the hall to see if there was anybody else in the apartment. I came down to the living room steps, looked around, and did not see anybody in the living room. Looked in the dining and kitchen area, and I proceeded back to the master bedroom.
Q During this trip down the hallway, what lights, if any, were on?
A There was a light on in the hall, and there was a light on in the dining room.
Q As a result of that, I take it you were able to see?
A Yes.
Q What, if anything, did you touch as you walked down the hall?
A I touched nothing.
Q What, if anything, at that point had you touched in the master bedroom?
A Nothing. I just touched the door at this point.
Q Which door are you referring to?
A The screen door.

MR. BLACKBURN: You may resume your seat.

Q After you had gone down the hallway and come back, did you go back to the master bedroom?
A Yes, I did.
Q When you got back there, what, if anything, did you observe?
A Lieutenant Paulk was standing in the master bedroom. Specialist Mica was in the master bedroom, and myself at that point. Captain MacDonald told us that he had been stabbed and that he thought he may go into shock and, if he went into shock, we should breathe into his mouth.
Q What, if anything, did you observe Specialist Mica do?
A At that point Specialist Mica started to give Captain MacDonald mouth-to-mouth resuscitation.
Q What were you doing at this time?
A I just lifted Captain MacDonald's feet slightly and loosened his pajama bottom to allow him to breathe.
Q Why did you raise his feet?
A Well, we were taught that if someone is going into shock, one of the things to do is to raise his feet, loosening anything around their neck and waist which would help a person to breathe more easily.
Q Did you hold his feet yourself or did you put his feet on something?
A No, I just elevated them a few inches and held them.
Q How long did you do that?
A Ten or 15 seconds.
Q After you did that, what did you do?
A I then got up and picked up the phone in the master bedroom.
Q If you would, come back to the model and show us where that occurred?
A The phone in the master bedroom is right here on the dresser, on the end of the dresser.
Q If you would, Mr. Tevere, would you unhook the front of the model? Now, again, please, would you tell the jury where you picked up the telephone, where it was located?
A The telephone was located on the end of a bureau which was in the master bedroom. The receiver was lying at that time right next to the telephone -- off the hook.
Q How did you pick up the telephone?
A I picked it up with my thumb and two fingers, like this (gesturing).
Q Did you put it to your ear?
A Yes.
Q What did you hear?
A Nothing. The phone was dead.
Q Why did you pick it up?
A I picked the phone up because the radio operator told us when we got the initial call to make sure that we got into the MacDonald house and call them from the phone inside the house because they believed somebody had been stabbed inside the house.
Q After you discovered that the phone was dead, what did you do with the phone?
A Put the phone back down on the dresser -- the receiver back down next to the telephone.
Q Did you ever touch the main part of the phone -- the main body of the phone?
A No, I did not.

MR. BLACKBURN: You may resume your seat.

Q Mr. Tevere, did you have an occasion to observe the top of the dresser in the master bedroom?
A Yes, I did.
Q That the phone was resting on?
A What was on the top of that dresser, if you know?
A To the best of my knowledge, it was a glass top with a lamp and, I think, a can of hair spray, and a few other articles scattered about.
Q The glass top covered the whole of the top of the dresser?
A Yes.
Q Now, during this time, how long did you remain in the master bedroom?
A Maybe about three minutes -- four minutes.
Q During that time, what, if anything, did you observe as to the condition of that master bedroom?
A I had noticed a wet spot on the bed -- on the sheet of the bed. I had noticed a knife with blood on it next to the dresser which I pointed out to Specialist Mica. I noticed that someone had written the word "Pig" on the dashboard -- on the headboard, rather -- of the bed and there was a pile of sheets and whatnot just lying against the wall at the foot of the bed.
Q How about coming down here, if you would, Mr. Tevere? Mr. Tevere, if you would take those items that I have put on the back of that model -- one item representing a pile of bedding, another one representing Colette MacDonald, and another representing Jeffrey MacDonald. If you would, sir, place them in the master bedroom in the position that you saw them when you went into the master bedroom.

(Witness complies.)

Q Mr. Tevere, what was the condition of the bed in the master bedroom if you had occasion to observe it?
A It just had a sheet on it which I said was wet, and it had nothing else.
Q Was the sheet on or off the bed?
A Partially on and off the bed.
Q What, if anything, did you observe on the walls of that room?
A I noticed the wall -- on the wall over the bed where the headboard was were some reddish-brown stains.
Q What, if anything, did you observe with respect to the ceiling of the master bedroom?
A The same thing. There was stains on the ceiling also.
Q Do you mean reddish-brown stains?
A Reddish-brown stains, yes.

MR. BLACKBURN: You may resume your seat.

Q I believe you testified earlier that while you were in the master bedroom, you heard the Defendant indicate that he had been stabbed; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q While you were in that master bedroom, what else, if anything, did you hear the Defendant say?
A He told us that a bunch of hippies -- a band of hippies -- had come into the house. He described that there were four hippies. One was a blonde with muddy boots, floppy hat, and carrying a candle.
Q Excuse me. Who did you say was carrying the candle?
A The blonde was carrying a candle, saying, "Acid is groovy; kill the pigs." He said there were two white males -- Caucasian -- and one Negro with an army field jacket with sergeant stripes.
Q What, if anything, did the Defendant say with respect to his children?
A He kept asking to check his children and he kept asking how the children were.
Q As a result of that question or statement by the Defendant, what, if anything, did you do?
A Well, at that point, I told him they were okay because I didn't want to alarm him, and I got up to see the condition of the children.
Q If you would come back down, sir. Okay, if you would proceed. You said that you went to see these children. Where did you go first?
A The first bedroom that I went into was the front bedroom right here (indicating).
Q Okay. If you would, Mr. Tevere, will you pick up one of those models and place it where you saw someone in that room?

(Witness complies.)

Q Where are you pointing to?
A The front bedroom where Kimberly MacDonald was.
Q You did not know her at that time to be Kimberly MacDonald?
A No.
Q She was in the bed?
A Yes, she was.
Q Now, how far did you go into that bedroom?
A About three or four steps.
Q What, if anything, did you touch as you walked into that bedroom?
A I didn't touch anything.
Q Was the light on or off?
A I don't remember. It was light in the room because I was able to see the child without any problem.
Q Was there a light in the hall?
A Yes, there was.
Q I believe that you testified earlier that the hall light was on?
A Yes.
Q Now, what use, if any, did you make of your flashlight during this time?
A I did not use it at all.
Q When you went in to observe the little girl in the bed, after you observed that, where did you go?
A I came back out of the room and I went to the door of the third bedroom -- the north bedroom.
Q What did you observe in that bedroom?
A A child in the bed.
Q If you would, sir, put the other model where you saw it?

(Witness complies.)

Q Now, what else did you observe in that bedroom, if anything?
A I observed that the child seemed to have been hurt very badly. There was a puddle of blood. I could see that blood had dripped down the bed and there was a puddle of blood right in front of the bed.
Q On the floor?
A Yes.
Q What was the position of the child in the bed?
A She was lying on her left side facing the east side of the house -- lying on her side. Her hand was over near the edge of the bed.
Q Were the bedcovers up or down?
A They were down.
Q Were they all the way down?
A I can't remember.
Q With respect to the other bedroom, when you saw the child in that bed, were the bedcovers up or down?
A They were up.
Q Do you recall whether the light was on or off in that other bedroom?
A I don't recall.

MR. BLACKBURN: You may resume the stand.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q When you went into this back bedroom, what, if anything, did you touch when you went into it?
A I didn't touch a thing.
Q After you looked into those two bedrooms, what did you do then?
A Went back to the master bedroom.
Q What did you do when you got there?
A I think Mica was giving Captain MacDonald artificial respiration again. I stood there as Mica gave him mouth to mouth. Again, Captain MacDonald asked how his children were. I just told him, "It will be okay. Don't worry."
Q When you observed the Defendant, how was he dressed?
A With just a pajama bottom.
Q How was he dressed from the waist up?
A He had nothing on. He had a bare chest.
Q What, if anything, did you observe with respect to his chest area?
A Nothing. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary.

MR. SEGAL: I cannot hear your answer.

THE WITNESS: I did not see anything out of the ordinary.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q What, if anything, did you observe with respect to his pajama bottom?
A There was just a couple of specks of blood on the bottom of them, I believe.

MR. BLACKBURN: Excuse me for just one moment, Your Honor.

(Pause.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Tevere, as you were in the apartment, what wet or muddy spots, if any, did you observe?
A I didn't see any.
Q What blades of grass, if any, did you observe?
A I saw no grass.
Q What, if anything, did you say to the other MPs who were there with respect to observing the evidence at that particular house?
A I told the other MPs not to touch anything. I told them to watch where they walked and not to pick up anything, not to hit the walls, and not to disturb anything in the house.
Q What, if anything, did you see any of the other MPs touch?
A Nobody touched anything that I could see.
Q What, if anything, did you see those other MPs move?
A Nothing.

MR. SEGAL: Can we have some identification, Your Honor, of which military police officer this witness is being questioned about? The record indicates that there are many, many more than so far we have had identified.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, the question went to the MPs. He has already mentioned several.

THE COURT: Yes. He named them. If there were others encompassed by your question, identify them, too.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Tevere, up to this point, while you were in the house, would you identify those MPs that you know that were in that house?
A There was Lieutenant Paulk, Spec. 4 Mica, Spec. 4 D'Amore, Specialist Dickerson, Specialist Sellick, Sergeant Hageny, and Sergeant Caldwell.
Q Is that all you recall?
A Yes.
Q With respect to those MPs, who among those did you observe touch or move anything?
A None of the MPs touched anything or moved anything that I was able to see.
Q Mr. Tevere, at this point how long, if you know, had you been in the house?
A Five minutes, maybe eight minutes.
Q Do you recall approximately what time you arrived at the house?
A Approximately 3:50 or 3:55 a.m.
Q After you were in the master bedroom at this time, did you have an occasion to go back to the front part of the house?
A Yes, I did.
Q For what purpose did you do that?
A I went to the front of the house to see where Lieutenant Paulk was, and to check and see why the ambulances had not arrived as yet.
Q Where did you talk to Lieutenant Paulk?
A I spoke to Lieutenant Paulk in the living room or first I spoke to Lieutenant Paulk in the master bedroom because he was taking notes and taking down a description of what Captain MacDonald -- of the people Captain MacDonald said were in the house.
Q If you would, sir, if you would come around here and point out to the Jury where you were talking to Lieutenant Paulk.
A Lieutenant Paulk was standing right here, and I was standing in the doorway.
Q Would you repeat the answer.
A Lieutenant Paulk was standing right here, and I was standing in the doorway right here. (Indicating.)
Q And what did you say to him, if you recall?
A Lieutenant Paulk got a description of the intruders that Captain MacDonald gave us. He said he was going to go outside and radio the Provost Marshal's Office, or try to use a phone next door if he could get somebody to answer the door to call the descriptions in and also he would also check on the ambulance.
Q I believe that you have testified that you subsequently came back to the living room area, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Why did you do that?
A Because Lieutenant Paulk went down the hall and into the living room.
Q Where did you talk with him in the living room?
A I spoke with Lieutenant Paulk here in the living room.
Q Did you have occasion to observe the physical condition of the living room?
A Yes.
Q Would you describe what you saw?
A When I went into the living room there was a light on, and coffee table was lying on its side; and I saw some magazines under the coffee table on one side of it.
Q What else, if anything, did you observe?
A I saw a little clothing, I think, in this area here, and a flower pot on the floor.
Q Was the flower pot standing up or on its side?
A It was lying on its side.

MR. BLACKBURN: You may resume your seat.

Q Did you see anything else in the living room overturned besides the coffee table and the flower pot?
A No, that was it. I saw nothing else.
Q Did you have occasion to look into the dining room area?
A Yes, I did.
Q What, if anything, did you observe there with respect to the condition of the furniture?
A Nothing. I didn't observe anything out of the ordinary.
Q By that I take it you mean everything was upright?
A Yes.
Q Did you have an occasion to observe the kitchen area?
A Yes. I looked into the kitchen area.
Q Was the light in the kitchen on or off?
A The light was on in the kitchen.
Q What, if anything, did you observe in the kitchen?
A I noticed little specks -- reddish-brown specks -- on the floor, that seemed to be blood. Then I noticed the telephone dangling -- the telephone cord with the receiver hanging straight down to the floor.
Q If you, sir, would come over to this model and point out the location of the telephone.
A Right here on the wall. (Indicating.)
Q And also the approximate area where you stated what appeared to be reddish-brown stains.
A Right here. (Indicating.)
Q Would you say for the record the relationship of those reddish-brown stains to the kitchen sink, for example?
A It was three feet in front of the kitchen sink.
Q Mr. Tevere, when you first went into the master bedroom and saw the male and female on the floor, were you able to see all of the female, or was the male laying next to her?
A The male was lying on his right side covering part of the female's left side.
Q Was the female dressed or not dressed?
A She had pajamas on.
Q Top and bottom?
A Yes.
Q What else, if anything, did you observe on the top of the female?
A Well, it looked like part of her chest was exposed, and I saw what appeared to be several wounds on her chest and her head and a bathmat near her feet or a white towel near the bottom part of her.
Q What else, if anything, did you see on her chest area?
A At that point, nothing else.

MR. BLACKBURN: Just a moment.

(Pause.)

Q If you would come down here to the model, Mr. Tevere, to the master bedroom area and point out where you saw what you stated to be a bathmat on Colette.
A Right here in this area.

MR. SEGAL: (Interposing) Excuse me, Your Honor. I'm sorry; I do not want to interfere with the Jury here, but at the same time, it is impossible to conduct this case when none of us sitting over here, Mr. Smith or myself, can see what is going on or what this witness is indicating. We need to have a better and fairer procedure for doing this.

THE COURT: Do you have any suggestions?

MR. SEGAL: Your Honor, I think perhaps we ought to talk with the Court about how this trial can be conducted so that the Defense can know what is going on over here.

THE COURT: If it is a matter of audibility and the witness is not talking loud enough I will tell him to raise his voice. If it is a matter of accessibility to the exhibit, I will just have to ask you to take a place over where you can see. That is customary in this courtroom.

MR. SEGAL: I think we need some rearrangement, Your Honor, to allow us to do that.

THE COURT: Just go right ahead. I am open to suggestions about it. Certainly everybody's got a right to see what is going on.

MR. SEGAL: Indulge us for a moment, Your Honor, and let us talk with Counsel for the Government.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Counsel confer.)

MR. MURTAGH: I wonder if you would inquire of the Jury if they can still see the model at this angle.

THE COURT: Can all the jurors see the Exhibit from where you are now? I think that to the extent that it is possible to do so -- it might be helpful if when pointing out something with the pointer you stand to the rear of the Exhibit so as not to come between the Jury and what he is pointing to -- if you can see over it.

MR. SEGAL: If Your Honor pleases, if the members of the Jury will not be offended, we will have to probably stand back toward the wall here next to the Jury box.

THE COURT: It won't bother them in the slightest.

MR. BLACKBURN: Could you read back -- I've forgotten where we were -- the last question.

Q Mr. Tevere, point out -- with respect to the master bedroom -- the location of the bathmat on Colette where you saw her?
A Right here (indicating).
Q Mr. Tevere, stay there for just a moment. Did you have an occasion to be at the apartment when the ambulance from Womack Army Hospital arrived?
A Yes, I was.
Q Approximately, if you know, how long was that after you did, in fact, get to Castle Drive, that the ambulance came?
A Approximately ten minutes.
Q And who did they take out, if you know?
A They took Captain MacDonald out.
Q Were you in the master bedroom when that occurred?
A Yes, I was.
Q What, if anything, did you do when they took him out?
A I assisted Mica, and, I believe, one of the ambulance attendants in putting Captain MacDonald onto the stretcher.
Q How many people put him onto the stretcher?
A To the best of my knowledge, I think three.
Q What kind of stretcher was it, if you know? Was it one that rolls or one that you carry?
A It was one that rolled; yes.
Q After you all put Doctor MacDonald on the stretcher, what did you do?
A We began to wheel the stretcher toward the front of the house, down this hallway.
Q As you went down the hallway, what, if anything, unusual occurred?
A I was at the foot of the stretcher leading it and when we got near the front bedroom -- the south bedroom -- Mr. MacDonald -- Captain MacDonald -- grabbed the door jamb and proceeded to try to get off the stretcher.
Q Did he get all the way off the stretcher?
A No, about halfway.
Q What, if anything, did you do?
A We tried to restrain him to put him back onto the stretcher.
Q What, if anything, did you touch at that point?
A The door jamb or the wall, I guess. That was it.
Q After you helped restrain the Defendant and put him back on the stretcher, where did you go?
A We wheeled the stretcher down the hallway and into the living room.
Q I notice on the model there is at least one step. Did you pick the stretcher up and place it down on the living room floor?
A Yes, we lifted the stretcher at this point where the steps are so it would not bang us as we went down the stairs.
Q And if you would, sir, with the pointer, follow through the living room the direction that you took him out Castle Drive.
A We came down the stairs right here and out the front door which was right here.
Q Did you go out to the ambulance?
A No, sir, I did not.
Q How far did you go?
A The front door.
Q After Doctor MacDonald left the apartment, where did you go and what did you do?
A I came back into the house -- I came back into the living room and I again instructed everybody not to touch anything and I proceeded back into the master bedroom.
Q Approximately how long, if you know, did it take you all to get the Defendant out of the master bedroom onto the stretcher and out of the house?
A Maybe two minutes.
Q After you went back to the master bedroom what did you do?
A I believe the CID men came -- CID Agent Ivory came in, then Colonel Kriwanek came in.
Q You may resume your seat.
A Colonel Kriwanek came in and a photographer also came into the house.
Q How long after these people came was it before you left Castle Drive?
A Three or four minutes.
Q During this three or four minutes, what did you do?
A Colonel Kriwanek asked us what we had done -- asked us for a description of the people that we were given.
Q By "us" -- to whom are you referring?
A Myself, Specialist Mica, and Lieutenant Paulk. He then instructed us to leave there and go back to the Provost Marshal's Office and write a complete statement.
Q And what did you do?
A I went to the Provost Marshal's Office.
Q After you went back to the Provost Marshal's Office, did you have an occasion to ever return to this apartment during this time?
A I don't think so -- I don't remember.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, may I have just one moment?

(Pause.)

THE WITNESS: I think I may have gone back once because I remember there being a seal on the front door at 544 Castle Drive and I remember one of the Agents removing the seal and replacing it.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Tevere, do you recall in your testimony when you looked into the back bedroom where one of the little girls was -- and I believe you testified that she was on her side?
A Yes.
Q Do you recall seeing anything else near her?
A I think there was a bottle in the bed with her.
Q Do you recall what kind of bottle it was?
A I don't.
Q You did not go to the bed?
A No, I didn't. I did not step into that room. Whatever I observed, I observed from the doorway.
Q If you know, were you the first MP to see the children?
A Yes.

MR. BLACKBURN: You may cross-examine.


C R O S S - E X A M I N A T I O N 12:25 p.m.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Mr. Tevere, these events that you have been describing took place, I think, nine years, five months, and two days ago; isn't that right?
A That is correct.
Q You have described for us the position of some piles of clothing that you say were in the house; is that right?
A Yes.
Q And some other details of this premise; is that right?
A That is correct.
Q By any chance, have you looked at any pictures depicting the way that house looked on the night that you were there in 1970, in any recent days?
A No.
Q All that you're telling us now is from your memory, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Would it be fair to say that when you arrived at the scene, after you had seen the terrible damage to all these people --

MR. MURTAGH: (Interposing) OBJECTION, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Rephrase your question, please.

MR. SEGAL: I'm sorry, I cannot hear Your Honor.

THE COURT: I said, rephrase your question. There was an objection to the way you have described.

MR. SEGAL: I do not see that that is going to be an issue in this case, the Government having argued at length in the opening, Your Honor. All right, I will rephrase my question to satisfy the Government.

Q After you observed, Mr. Tevere, the people that were injured in this house, you realized that a serious crime had taken place; is that not right?
A Right.
Q And would it also be correct to say that at that point you realized that the preservation of all the evidence at the crime scene was going to be an important job?
A Yes, correct.
Q Among the various places you visited in this house was the living room, where there was a sofa and an overturned coffee table; isn't that also correct?
A Yes.
Q On the floor of that living room, you did see a flower pot of some sort was turned over on its side?
A Yes.

MR. MURTAGH: Your Honor, OBJECTION. It seems these questions have been asked and answered.

THE COURT: It is cross-examination. I think he has a right to re-explore matters that you brought up. I'll overrule your objection.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q What was your answer, Mr. Tevere?
A Yes, I saw a flower pot lying on its side.

MR. SEGAL: Your Honor, indulge us for a moment.

(Counsel confer.)

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Next to that flower pot, did you see some soil?
A Yes.
Q At what point in your various travels through the house did you observe that flower pot?
A The first time I went down into the living room.
Q And were you able to make the observation because of the light that was coming from the kitchen area, or did you shine your flashlight on it?
A No. The living room was lit because of a light that was on in the kitchen or dining area, yes.
Q In other words, it was the light from the adjoining kitchen area that gave you some illumination in the living room area?
A Right.
Q There was not actually a light on in the living area itself, however?
A No.
Q Now, when the last time you were in the MacDonald living room on February 17, 1970, where was that flower pot and how was its position described?
A Last time I saw it, the flower pot was on its side. I only noticed it once.
Q Just the first time that you came through?
A Yes.
Q You say you also advised the other military policemen who were there not to touch anything in this house.
A Correct.
Q You were very concerned to make sure that they did not disturb any of the physical evidence in this place.
A That's right.
Q Were any of these military policemen in other rooms when you weren't around to watch them?

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION, Your Honor. The question is argumentative. If the man wasn't around to watch them, he doesn't know.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: I can only be in one room at one time. When I was in the living room, I was not in the master bedroom.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q When you were in the living room, the other MPs were not there; is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q That would be Lieutenant Paulk, Specialist Mica, Specialist D'Amore; is that correct?
A That's right.
Q So they were in the master bedroom?
A Correct.
Q You have no idea what they may or may not have done at that point?
A No, I have no idea.
Q Is it fair to say that you gave them the best advice you could have at the crime scene; didn't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q But you're not standing here today to vouch that they in fact did not touch anything or move anything?
A No.
Q It is quite possible that either they or one of the other military policemen may have touched some of the physical evidence in this house?

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Now let's get back to your first entry into this house at 544 Castle Drive. When you arrived, you said Lieutenant Paulk and Specialist Dickerson were already there?
A I believe so. I know Lieutenant Paulk was there, yes.
Q And he had another enlisted person with him at that time?
A Yes.
Q Were they standing outside near the front entrance to the MacDonald house?
A Yes, they were.
Q What was the weather like at that point?
A I think it may have just stopped raining or may have been just a very slight drizzle. everything was very wet.
Q Excuse me, I'm sorry, go ahead and finish what you were saying.
A Everything was very wet.
Q Were they standing on the sidewalk of the house?
A No, they were standing right at the front door, which is, I guess, 20 or 25 feet up from the sidewalk.
Q They were actually on some cement steps leading up to this?
A Yes.
Q You then left then to go around to the back of the house?
A That is correct.
Q Was there a cement walkway of some sort from the front of the house to the back of the house?
A I think there was a walkway halfway around. I can remember walking through wet grass. I knew that the grass was wet.
Q How did you become aware that the grass was wet as you were walking around?
A After raining all night and drizzling up until then, the grass could not be dry. My boots were wet. I had patent leather boots and the water was on my boots.
Q You were wearing your regular military boots at that time?
A Jump boots.
Q You were wearing jump boots?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you otherwise get wet on your clothing as you went around to the back of the MacDonald house?
A I didn't hear.
Q Did you get any rain on you from the bushes or trees or just falling out of the sky?
A No, I may have been damp because the jeep had leaks in it, but other than that, I was not soaking wet, no.
Q I'm sorry; I missed the word. What may have had leaks on it?
A The jeep in which I was riding may have had holes and it was raining that night, and inadvertently it was very easy to get wet.
Q Had you been out of that jeep in a half hour, say, before you got this call and went to the MacDonald house?
A No.
Q You then went and you opened the screen door to the rear of the house and you say that screen door was closed at that time?
A Yes.
Q Tell us how wide the wooden door was open at that point?
A It was all the way open.
Q Beg your pardon?
A It was all the way open.
Q Wide open?
A Yes.
Q You stepped into the utility room and then, of course, a moment later you were looking into the master bedroom.
A Correct.
Q Did you use your flashlight at that point?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you ever turn a flashlight on during the course of these various observations you made in the house?
A I turned it on when I first got it and had it on while I walked around the side of the house toward the back of the house.
Q When you got in the house, you turned the light off?
A I believe so, yes.
Q Let me ask you to think about it as far as you can tell today. I realize it is a long time afterwards, but you think you did not use your flashlight at any time in the house; is that your testimony?
A I did not.
Q When you saw the male and female bodies in the master bedroom, what is it you thought had happened? What is it you decided was going on?

MR. MURTAGH: (Interposing) OBJECTION, Your Honor.

MR. SEGAL: May I finish my question, please? May I finish, Your Honor?

THE COURT: I would suggest now that you start over and ask it in its entirety.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Did you form any opinion, Mr. Tevere, as to what this scene represented to you at that time, when you saw these two bodies?

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION, Your Honor.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Mr. Tevere, could you tell us --
A The only opinion I had formed is that somebody had been hurt very badly. How or why -- you know -- it was a shock to me. It wasn't until a few minutes later that I saw a knife on the floor that I realized that this knife was probably the weapon used.
Q At that point you had no theory of how this might have taken place?
A No, not -- not right away.
Q And you decided to investigate further in the house to see whether there was other information you should know about; is that right?
A Correct.
Q You then proceeded down the hallway from the master bedroom toward the living room?
A Right.
Q Had it occurred to you that there might be persons who were responsible for this crime or these acts in the building at that point?
A Yes, that is why I went down into the -- through a hallway into the living room and dining area.
Q For the purpose of determining whether there might be --
A (Interposing) Yes.
Q -- some suspects or other persons that you should contact.
A Correct.
Q Did you have a weapon with you?
A Yes, I did.
Q What weapon did you have?
A I had a .45 caliber pistol.
Q Had you unholstered it at that point?
A I unholstered it before I went back into the house the second time, and I put a round in the chamber.
Q Back up a little bit. I am talking about the first time when you went into the house through the back door.
A The first time I went into the house I only went into the master bedroom. I ran back out again. I didn't proceed anywhere else in the house.
Q At that point you didn't touch your weapon?
A No.
Q Your primary concern was to see whether you could get some medical help and some additional MPs at that point?
A Well, when I first walked in, I didn't know what was going to be inside of the house, so -- we didn't make a habit of taking a pistol out and walking into somebody's house.
Q No, I am not suggesting you should. I am just asking. But at that point you ran out, and your purpose was to get medical personnel?
A Yes, to get help.
Q Then you came back into the house?
A Right.
Q At what point did you determine you better check out this premises to see whether there were any persons there, other than the victims?
A Well, before I ran back in the second time, the thought ran through my head to have my weapon -- my pistol out and have a round in the chamber in case there was somebody else in there or someone else had done this, to protect myself.
Q You put the round in your chamber while you were still outside the house?
A Right.
Q Did you draw your weapon?
A I drew the weapon and then put a round in the chamber.
Q Did you carry it as you went through the house?
A Yes, I did.
Q Describe what you did when you entered the house the second time with your weapon drawn. How did you proceed and what were you looking at?
A I entered the house the second time the same way I entered the first time. Lieutenant Paulk, Specialist Mica, and Specialist Morris were behind me; and I remember telling one of them when they were walking in the house to watch their pistol because they were behind me and they had it in front of them, and I just didn't want them to get scared and pull the trigger.
I then proceeded down the hall very cautiously --
Q (Interposing) Let me interrupt you just for one second. When you say you proceeded down the hall cautiously, was your caution because you were still uncertain as to whether there were any -- let's call them "unauthorized persons" -- in the premises?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q Where did you look to find whether there was any unauthorized persons, and how did you look to see whether there were unauthorized persons there?
A I proceeded down the hall, and glancing into the two bedrooms I saw no movement. I did not enter them, but because the living room, dining and kitchen area was a larger area I went down the hall to check those three rooms.
Q As you left the master bedroom and started for the living room, the first thing you did when you stepped out of the master bedroom was to, I assume, look either to your left into one of the smaller bedrooms, or to your right to the other small bedroom.
A I glanced -- I remember glancing into the bathroom. I then glanced into the front room, and then I don't remember if I glanced into the rear room. I can't remember every detail.
Q When you say the "rear room" you mean the master bedroom?
A No, the --
Q (Interposing) The other bedroom?
A -- the north bedroom, yes.
Q Then you went down the hallway the remaining few feet to the head of the steps where the entrance to the living room would be?
A Right.
Q When you got there, you were looking for intruders in that living room?
A Yes.
Q How far did you carry this -- well, let's call it investigation -- for possible unauthorized persons -- did you go into the living room, kitchen --
A Yeah, I stepped down -- well, the -- you -- I was able to observe the entire living room from the stairs. I stepped down off the stairs, went right into the dining area, and I was able to look into the kitchen. It was -- you know, it was -- they were not closed rooms with doors. It was a wide open area.
Q At that point had you satisfied yourself that there were no unauthorized persons in these premises?
A Yes.
Q Did you put your weapon back in your holster?
A I came back up the hall and put my weapon back in -- back in the holster.
Q Where were the other two MPs you say were originally behind you?
A They were in the master bedroom.
Q They had not followed you down the hallway?
A No.
Q You walked back down the hallway and then you met Mica and a few more in the master bedroom?
A Yes.
Q What did you tell them at that time?
A I told them I didn't believe there was anybody else in the house; and I believe Morris was standing near the utility room, and I told him to put his pistol away before somebody got hurt.
Q So, would it be accurate to say at that point, as far as you know, all the military policemen holstered their weapons?
A Yes, sir.
Q Was there somewhat a sense of relief in that you didn't think there were any intruders there?
A Yes, sir.
Q When was the first time you observed the pile of clothing at the head of the stairway there?
A Near the living room?
Q Yes.
A When I first walked down the hallway.
Q You mean as you were walking down the hallway with your drawn weapon you saw the pile of clothing there?
A Yes, I walked very cautiously and made sure I didn't touch the walls or anything, because it was a narrow hallway; and I just walked very slowly and observed the clothing there at the stairs.
Q Excuse me.
A The clothing was at the foot of the hall right on the stairs, lying on the steps.
Q You walked down the hallway cautiously, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q I don't mean to be facetious, but I am going to say something that may seem that way. Your feet -- your boots -- were touching the floor as you walked down the hall?
A Sure they were.
Q Sometimes lawyers have to prove the obvious at least to themselves; but you will forgive me for that.
You turned around and it was decided, looking in the living room, that there were no intruders, right?
A Correct.
Q You started walking back, somewhat relieved, to the master bedroom?
A Yes.
Q Did you see your wet footprints on the floor at that time?

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION, Your Honor.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED as to the form.

MR. SEGAL: All right, sir, I will rephrase it.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Did you see any physical evidence of your own path having just walked down that hallway?
A No.
Q Did you see any blades of grass on the floor at that time in the hallway?
A No, I did not.
Q Of course, you had now walked back and forth across part of the MacDonald lawn at least twice before walking down that hallway?
A Yes.
Q Now, later on in this sequence of events, you say you assisted Specialist Mica and some hospital attendants to take Dr. MacDonald from the master bedroom through the hallway into the living room and out the front door?
A Correct.
Q First of all, tell me please, if you would, through what entrance did the medical personnel come into the MacDonald house?
A They entered through the front door.
Q The front door?
A Yes, sir.
Q To the best of your recollection, how many -- and we will use the Army term -- how many medics were there at that point?
A Two, I think.
Q And did they have something to carry Dr. MacDonald with when they came in?
A A stretcher.
Q What kind of stretcher was it -- a canvas type with two poles that you pick somebody up with?
A No, I think it was a stretcher with a soft mattress and a sheet on it.
Q Did it have wheels on it?
A Yes, it did.
Q When they first came in, did you see them actually enter the living room?
A No, I didn't.
Q Where were you when the medics first came in, as far as you can tell?
A I was in the master bedroom.
Q When did you first become aware that medics were coming into the house from the front of the house?
A When I saw one of them -- they started to lift the stretcher down the hall -- to bring the stretcher into the master bedroom.
Q Would I be correct in assuming that what you are saying is that you could look down the hallway from the door of the master bedroom and that you saw these two medics at the stairs that lead up to the hall?
A Yes.
Q What were they doing with the stretcher at that point?
A One of them was in the front of it, and one medic, I believe, was in the back and lifted it up the two-step incline and began to wheel it into the master bedroom.
Q Began to do what to it?
A Wheel the stretcher.
Q Wheel it down the hallway?
A Yes.
Q Again, forgive me. I am not trying to be facetious --
A (Interposing) It had wheels.
Q That is a good question. I had not thought of it, Mr. Tevere. I was going back to the other obvious question. Is it fair to say that these two men walked with their feet on the same floor again?
A Yes, they did.
Q Did they have boots on as far as you know?
A Yes, they did.
Q They they brought the stretcher into the master bedroom. Did they open it up at that point?
A No. It was open.
Q Where was Dr. MacDonald at that juncture when the medics arrived in the bedroom with the stretcher?
A He was lying on his back.
Q Who was with him at that point?
A Mica.
Q Specialist Mica?
A Specialist Mica and myself and one or two other MPs.
Q Describe, if you will, how Dr. MacDonald was then placed onto the stretcher?
A Three of us -- three or four of us -- I don't recall -- picked Captain MacDonald up. Two held him in the chest area and two of us held him along his leg area and lifted him onto the stretcher.
Q I am not sure what you mean -- the two of you held him by the chest area?
A Well, in the upper part. There were two on one side of him and two on the other side of him.
Q Well, did they carry him with their hands on his back or was he face down?
A No. He was face up and we picked him up from under his back, yes.
Q Then, you all laid him down on this stretcher?
A Yes, sir.
Q What did the medics do once he was placed on the stretcher?
A There was only one medic there, I think, at that time. I was at the foot of the stretcher which was the first part to go down the hallway. There was another medic in the middle, I believe, and I think Mica was at the head of the stretcher which would be the part of the stretcher closest to the master bedroom.
Q How wide was that stretcher, Mr. Tevere? Can you give us an estimate? Perhaps, you might use the bench in front of you.
A Twenty inches, I would say -- 20 or 24 inches.
Q Would you, perhaps, indicate with your hands on the table there?
A Well, from here -- about like this (indicating).
Q Thank you. I believe that I would agree with you. Twenty inches sounds reasonable. How wide was the hallway in the MacDonald house as far as you could tell?

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION, Your Honor.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: Thirty inches. That is a guess.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q That sounds like under three feet.
A Well, 36 inches.
Q About three feet wide?
A Yes. It wasn't very wide, but it wasn't very narrow.
Q Describe for us, if you will, how you and the other personnel moved the stretcher with Dr. MacDonald down the hall? Where were you positioned and how did the stretcher go down the hall?
A I was at the foot of the stretcher -- leading the stretcher down the hall. I believe the medic or another military person was in the middle of the stretcher alongside of it. Mica, I believe, was at the head of the stretcher where Captain MacDonald's head would have been.
Q Then, this group of the three of you with the man on the stretcher started to what -- roll the stretcher down the hall?
A Yes.
Q And then you stopped as you said Dr. MacDonald tried to get off the stretcher near one of the bedrooms?
A Well, I didn't stop -- we didn't stop. Captain MacDonald had asked several times about his children. As we went by the south bedroom, he grabbed the doorway -- the door jamb -- and kind of stopped the stretcher. We were not going that fast. He was trying to get off the stretcher to get into the south bedroom.
Q What did you do at that point to perhaps restrain him?
A We tried to hold him and pull him back onto the stretcher. I was around the waist area. I was holding him around the waist area. I can remember Mica and this third person also kind of, you know, coaxing, "Come on, come on, get on the stretcher," you know.
Q Was he struggling?
A Yes, he was. He put up -- I would not say a fight or battle, but he was struggling.
Q Was he perhaps motivated to see how his baby was doing?
A Yes.

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION, Your Honor.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Do not consider that answer.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q You said that you had him around the waist at that point? I am sorry.

THE COURT: I SUSTAINED the OBJECTION and asked the jury not to consider that answer. Go ahead.

MR. MURTAGH: Thank you, Your Honor.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q How did you get at Dr. MacDonald's waist?
A Leaned over the stretcher.
Q And the medic who was alongside the stretcher, how did he restrain Dr. MacDonald?
A He was to my left, also. He leaned over the stretcher.
Q Now, if I may ask you just so I can visually picture this -- if we may assume that this overly large area between these two tables is the hallway -- right?
A Yes.
Q We know that this is far wider than the actual hallway; am I correct in that regard?
A Yes.
Q The stretcher occupied a portion of this hallway?
A Correct.
Q Will the jury excuse my back for a minute? You were at the front of it?
A Yes, sir.
Q Leaning over and trying to restrain Dr. MacDonald?
A I was pulling the stretcher down the hall.
Q Excuse me. Let me turn around. This way?
A No. With my back.
Q You were going backwards?
A Yes, I was.
Q I see.
A When Captain MacDonald sought to get off the stretcher, I just went around the side of it next to the medic.
Q You went around where?
A Alongside the stretcher.
Q Like this (indicating)?
A No.
Q On the other side?
A Yes, sir.
Q It would be facing the head of the stretcher to the left side of the stretcher?
A Yes, sir.
Q You went around like this (indicating)?
A Yes.
Q And tried to hold his waist in some way?
A Right.
Q Where was the other medic?
A To my left.
Q Next to you like this (indicating)?
A Yes, sir.
Q What was he doing -- bending over and holding the man down?
A Yes, sir.
Q Are you sure that neither you or the medic brushed against the wall at any place at that time?

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Your answer, please?
A I don't remember. It is possible, but I don't remember.
Q You were not really worrying about it?
A No.
Q I don't think anybody would fault you, Mr. Tevere.

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Don't consider the comment of counsel. Just ask your question, please.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q But it is fair to say that you do not know whether your body in any way brushed against or touched the wall or the hallway?
A We were trying to restrain Dr. MacDonald at that point.

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION, Your Honor. Asked and answered.

MR. SEGAL: It is cross-examination, Your Honor. I think we are entitled to have a clear answer on this question.

THE COURT: The question, I believe, has been asked and it has been answered on cross-examination. I will let him answer it one more time.

MR. SEGAL: Thank you, Your Honor. Go ahead.

THE WITNESS: What was the question, please?

THE COURT: Just ask it. The witness does not recall it.

BY MR. SEGAL: What I was interested in knowing, Mr. Tevere, was whether or not you can say for certain that when you attempted to restrain Dr. MacDonald at that juncture in the hallway, whether or not you could say for certain that your body did not touch the wall?
A I don't think I did, but I can't say for certain. I don't remember. I just don't know.
Q If you say that you don't think you did, that would seem to indicate that maybe you have some basis --

MR. MURTAGH: (Interposing) Your Honor --

THE COURT: (Interposing) I will SUSTAIN that.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Do you have any basis in fact to believe that your body did not touch the wall?

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q What about the medic? Do you know as a matter of fact whether his body touched the wall or not at that juncture?
A I only know that my body didn't.
Q I understand that, but you were looking in his direction; were you not?
A I was not looking at the medic --

MR. BLACKBURN: (Interposing) OBJECTION, Your Honor. The counsel is arguing with the witness.

MR. SEGAL: I asked for a fact whether he was looking in the direction of the medic, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Answer the question.

THE WITNESS: I was not looking at the medic. I was looking at Captain MacDonald. I was facing the doorway. The medic was to my left.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q How many feet away was it?
A Maybe a foot.
Q A foot?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you have any way of knowing whether his body touched the wall?
A I have no way of knowing that.
Q Now, what about Specialist Mica? Where was he during this process?
A He was at the head of the stretcher.
Q Tell is, if you can, what exactly were Dr. MacDonald's words at that point when he tried to get off the stretcher?
A I don't remember. At that point, I don't remember what Captain MacDonald said.
Q You are saying "at that point." Do you mean that you don't have a memory today or you did not have a memory in 1970, or -- I don't understand what you mean when you say "at that point."

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION, Your Honor.

THE COURT: I will SUSTAIN that. Let me ask the question. Do you remember if he said anything?

THE WITNESS: No, I don't remember if he said anything.

THE COURT: Very well.

THE WITNESS: At that point.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Would it be fair to say that your testimony is that your recollection is that Dr. MacDonald said nothing as he was trying to get off the stretcher and grab the door jamb at that point?
A Correct.
Q Had he at all asked about the children in those bedrooms before that episode when he tried to get out of the stretcher?
A Yes, he did.
Q All right. When was the first time that he asked about his children?
A When we first went into the house -- well, after we were in the house for maybe a minute.
Q This is the second time that you had come into the house?
A Yes.
Q You had gone over to him at that point?
A Yes.
Q You say "we"; who else was there?
A Specialist Mica.
Q Tell us, if you can, to the best of your recollection, the exact words that Dr. MacDonald spoke at that point?
A He asked us to check on his kids. He wanted to know how his kids were.
Q Are those his words or are you kind of describing?
A He said, "How are my children? Can you check on my children?" He asked me several times how they were.
Q All right, if you would, try and tell us now to the best of your recollection, you know, interspersing observations or comments about it? Try, if you will, in a sense, to be Dr. MacDonald for a few seconds.
A He gave us a description of the people he said were in the house. He told us that he was a doctor and that he thought that he was going into shock and that if he went into shock, to breathe into his mouth and to make sure that he didn't swallow his tongue. Then, he asked about his children. He repeated about his children several times.
Q But what were his words?

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION, Your Honor.

MR. SEGAL: No, Your Honor. The witness is trying to help, but he is characterizing rather than telling us, if he can, the words that the Defendant spoke.

MR. ANDERSON: OBJECTION to the comment of counsel.

THE COURT: All right. Do you remember Dr. MacDonald's exact words? If so, you may quote them.

THE WITNESS: Dr. MacDonald said that a band of hippies entered his house. He gave us a description. He said that there was a male -- a female blonde with a floppy hat and muddy boots carrying a candle. She said, "Acid is groovy; kill the pigs." He told us that there were two white male Caucasians. One was a male Negro that was wearing a field jacket with sergeant stripes. I believe he said, "Look at what they have done to my wife." Again, he asked about his children. "How are my children? Check my children."

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q "Check the kids"?
A "Check the kids. Check the children." I don't remember the exact words.
Q I did not hear it.
A I don't remember whether he said "children" or "kids."
Q You got the sense of what he was talking about; did you not?
A Oh, yes.

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Is it fair to say at this point -- at this juncture, you don't have an exact memory of the precise words that he used?
A No, I do not.

THE COURT: This is the time when we go to lunch. We will take a recess now, members of the jury, and come back today at 2:30. Remember all the things I told you not to do and don't do them. Come back at 2:30, please.

(The proceeding was recessed at 1:00 p.m., to reconvene at 2:30 p.m., this same day.)


F U R T H E R P R O C E E D I N G S 2:30 p.m.

(The following proceedings were held in the presence of the jury and alternates.)

THE COURT: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Let your witness come back to the stand.

(Whereupon, RICHARD DENNIS TEVERE, the witness on the stand at the time of recess, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:)


C R O S S - E X A M I N A T I O N (resumed)

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Mr. Tevere, I think right before luncheon recess, I had been asking you about what Doctor MacDonald's words were about his children. Do you recall that?
A Yes, I do.
Q When Doctor MacDonald said something to you about "Check my children -- check my kids," was that the first time that you became aware that there were any other persons in his house other than the male and female bodies that you saw in the master bedroom?
A Yes.
Q And when you received that information, what did you do after that point?
A I then proceeded to check the other two bedrooms of the house.
Q Now, which of the bedrooms, other than the master bedroom, did you go to first when you left Doctor MacDonald?
A The front bedroom.
Q Then, for my purposes, if for no one else's -- and forgive my back -- is the one which on this model had the letter "n" indicating north side?
A The front bedroom is the one that is on the south side.
Q All right. That is called the south bedroom?
A Yes.
Q I gather you come out the door of the master bedroom and it would be to your left as you were coming down the hall?
A Yes, sir.
Q What did you do, Mr. Tevere, when you got to that south bedroom door?
A I took approximately three or four steps into the bedroom.
Q Yes?
A I observed a young girl lying in the bed with blood all around her.
Q Do you now know that to be the bedroom of Kimberly MacDonald?
A Yes.
Q That would be the older of the two MacDonald children?
A Yes.
Q Would it be fair to characterize that as a fairly small bedroom?

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: I will let him describe if he knows the size of it or recalls.

THE WITNESS: It was bigger than the bedroom I had before I went into the Army.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Let me ask you this way. When you took three or four steps into the bedroom, did that bring you fairly close to the only bed that was in that room?
A Yes.
Q Would it be fair to say that you were within two or three feet of the bed at that juncture?
A About three feet.
Q Three feet. And you could see that the sheet on that particular bed was turned down?

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION, Your Honor.

THE COURT: OVERRULED, if that is a question.

MR. SEGAL: Yes.

THE WITNESS: The sheet was not really turned down. She was covered partially with a sheet and a blanket, I guess.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Correct me if my memory is wrong. I thought this morning, in response to the Government attorney's questioning, you described the sheet in that room as being turned down. I thought those were your words.
A Down toward the bottom of her feet, yes.
Q All right. But your memory, I gather, is the same as mine that you did testify this morning that when you went into Kimberly MacDonald's bedroom the sheet was turned down. That is how you described it this morning.

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION, Your Honor.

MR. SEGAL: I asked him if that was his memory, Your Honor.

THE COURT: It sounds like a statement but it was intended to have a question mark on the end of it. I will OVERRULE your objection.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Maybe I have inadvertently misled you and I apologize. I want to make sure that we are talking about the same -- this is Kristen MacDonald's bedroom, the small child. Is my memory the same as yours?
A (Interposing) No, you told me it was the older child's.
Q Let me correct myself. I am in error. Let's go by the north-south bedrooms. You went into the south bedroom. Is that correct?
A Correct.
Q Took three or four steps so that you were within three feet, you say, of the bed?
A Correct.
Q Is my memory correct that this morning you said when you looked at the bedclothing in this room you described this morning that the sheet was turned down?
A Partially, yes.
Q Before we go on, what, if anything, did you do in regard to the child in that room?
A I did nothing because the child looked lifeless -- seemed to me to be lifeless. She was not moving or breathing.
Q Was there any light in that room at that time?
A The room was lit.
Q That is not exactly what I wanted to ask you, but was there any light on that was in that room?
A I was able to see the child. I was not in darkness, and I did not need my flashlight.
Q Let me try one more time. All I want to know is -- was there any light that was a fixture or a lamp in that bedroom that was turned on at that time?
A I don't recall. I don't think so.
Q You mean there may have been or there may not have been?

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: Well, he answered. He said he didn't recall.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Do you have a specific recollection as to whether or not there was a ceiling light in that room?
A I don't have any recollection of that.
Q Do you have any recollection of whether or not there were any lamps in that room?
A I believe there was a lamp in the room. I don't remember if it was on, but I also know that there was enough light in the room for me to see the young girl visibly without straining my eyes and without using a flashlight. So, there was some sort of light -- whether it was coming from the hall or if it was in the room I am really not sure.
Q You think the possible source of the light might have been in the hallway, you say, and one other place I didn't catch?
A It could have been from the room or from the hallway. I know it wasn't coming from outside because it was dark outside.
Q You are sure it was not the flashlight?
A Positive.
Q Where was your flashlight at that point?
A I don't know.
Q Well, given the uniform you were wearing for your patrol officer's duties, where would you have carried the flashlight ordinarily?
A I had no room on my belt to carry the flashlight.
Q Beg your pardon?
A I had no room on my belt to carry the flashlight.
Q I did not mean to suggest on your belt. I just said "Where would you have normally carried it, given the equipment you were wearing?"
A In my hand.
Q And you didn't shine the flashlight at the figure in that bed at that time?
A No, I did not.
Q What makes you so certain about that if you can't --

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Let me ask you this question, Mr. Tevere. Do you recall testifying in the military proceedings in this case in 1970?
A Yes, I do.
Q You were called as a witness by the Government at that time, weren't you?
A Yes, sir.
Q That was only a matter of three months or so after the actual events had taken place?
A Yes.
Q Would I be correct in assuming that that was the time when your memory of the events and the activities of February 17, 1970, were freshest in your mind?
A Yes.

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Now I want to refer your attention to the transcript of those proceedings. I will give you the date in a second. This will be in June of 1970, and I am referring to your testimony which begins at page 184 of the Court transcript and I want to direct --

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION, Your Honor, to the word, "Court."

MR. SEGAL: I will rephrase the question.

THE COURT: Very well.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q I want to direct your attention to the Official Transcript of those proceedings. All right? I want to read you a question and then read you an answer and ask you if it refreshes your memory or if you can recall being asked that question and giving that answer. Is that understood?
A Yes, sir.
Q You were being questioned at that point by Captain Clifford Somers who was one of the Government Counsel in that case. Do you recall that?
A I don't recall Captain Somers, but I remember being questioned, yes.
Q Do you recall being asked the following question and giving the following answer at page 188: "Question: Now you say you proceeded to the bedroom. Would you point out the bedroom you were in? Answer: This bedroom, here."
Do you either recall that or does that sound familiar to you?
A I don't recall it.
Q Does it sound familiar to you that it might have been your testimony?
A It may have been, but I don't recall, sir.
Q Would you have any reason to disagree with the Court Stenographer's version of it?
A No, but I just don't recall saying it.
Q Pardon me, I should not have said "Court" -- the Stenographer of those proceedings. You would not disagree with her, would you?
A No.
Q Do you recall the following question and answer being asked immediately after that: "Question: That's the bedroom that's marked the front bedroom on that chart? Answer: Yes, sir."
Do you have any reason to disagree with the Court Stenographer -- the Proceedings Stenographer's statement?
A No, I don't.
Q The following question and answer: "Question: What did you do there? Answer: I got about two steps into the bedroom, and I shined a light on the bed the child was sleeping in. It appeared that she had been stabbed several times. I couldn't see too much of her because it was dark in the room."
Do you recall that question and answer?
A No, I don't.
Q Do you have any disagreement with the Stenographer's transcript of those proceedings?
A No, I don't.
Q Would it be fair to say that now that I have read this to you that you want to rethink the events, or would you want to suggest that this is more accurate as to what happened or what you are saying now, nine years, five months and two days later?

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Which of these do you consider to be the accurate description of whether you shined the flashlight to examine the bodies -- the body -- in the bedroom that we have referred to?

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: You have asked me now what I can recall doing. I have told you what I can recall doing. Nine years, five months and two days later, I can say that I can't remember every specific thing I did, and I'm sure you can't remember everything you did in 1970 either.

MR. SEGAL: I could not agree with you more, Mr. Tevere. My question to you though is: now having had this read to you, which would you conclude is more likely to be the more accurate statement of what you knew?
A I may have done that in 1970. I am not arguing that fact. I don't remember.
Q I was not suggesting you were. I was offering this perhaps to refresh your memory and that is all. All right, now, after you left Kristen's room in the south bedroom, where did you go?

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION, Your Honor.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MR. SEGAL: The error is mine in my notes here. I will correct it now and not embarrass myself any further.

THE COURT: You used Kimberly to begin with. Now if you have gone to Kristen's, that is something else. But if you are still in Kimberly's bedroom phase of it, then stick to that.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Where did you go next?
A To the north bedroom, the back bedroom of the house.
Q What did you do when you got to that bedroom?
A I just stood in the doorway.
Q Did you shine your light in the room then?
A I don't recall. No.
Q What do you recall seeing?
A I recall seeing a very young girl lying in the bed on her side. I remember seeing a lot of blood on the side and on the mattress, and a puddle of blood on the floor.
Q Would I be correct from your testimony in concluding that you never actually went into that room?
A That is correct.
Q Did you arrive at some conclusion in your mind about her condition?
A She looked lifeless, and did not appear to be breathing or moving and I just assumed that she was dead.
Q What did you do then?
A Went back into the master bedroom.
Q At that point, you told Dr. MacDonald, "Don't worry, the children are being taken care of"?
A I said, "Don't worry, your children are all right."
Q That was for the purpose of calming him down, right?

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q You may answer.
A Yes, it was. My feeling was, "Why alarm him, or, you know, give him more to worry about at that point." It was a reaction, I guess.
Q Please understand, I don't find any fault with that, Mr. Tevere. I was just asking if that was the purpose. Please understand that there was nothing more implied with that.
A That was the purpose.
Q At that point, were efforts being made to then remove Dr. MacDonald from the house on the stretcher?
A Shortly thereafter, yes.
Q Now you described for us this morning about the medics coming in the room rolling the stretcher. Is that correct?
A Yes, I did.
Q You also described for us that there were four persons who lifted Dr. MacDonald onto that stretcher.
A To the best of my knowledge, yes.
Q Now at the point that Dr. MacDonald was being readied to be lifted by you and the other personnel onto that stretcher he was lying on his back, was he not?
A Yes, he was.
Q But I remember also that you said that when you first came into the MacDonald house and the first time you saw the figure on the floor that at that time Dr. MacDonald was lying in some other position on his back.
A That is correct.
Q Would you tell me again, if you don't mind, what was the position he was first in when you first saw him.
A He was lying on his right side facing Mrs. MacDonald.
Q His head was lying on some part of her body, I believe you said?
A Yes.
Q What part of his head was in contact with what part of her body?
A This part.
Q Her shoulder?
A Left shoulder.
Q Left shoulder area?
A Yes.
Q Left breast?
A Yes.
Q At that point, when he was in that position you could not see that part of Mrs. MacDonald's body which would be her left breast?
A Left shoulder.
Q Left shoulder, left breast area could not be seen because of the position Dr. MacDonald was in at that time?
A I said her left shoulder.
Q I'm asking you, though, about the breast. Let's put it this way -- could you or could you not see her left breast at that point because of the position he was in?
A Partially. He was not on top of her on this part of her chest. He was right here in this area. (Indicating.)
Q Who turned Dr. MacDonald or moved Dr. MacDonald onto his back?
A I don't know.
Q Did you have any recollection of being in the room when that was done?

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION. He said he didn't know.

THE COURT. That is not the question now before the witness. OVERRULED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Do you have any recollection at all of who was in the room or whether you were in the room when Dr. MacDonald was moved?
A No, I have no recollection.
Q So in other words, you may have been there and you may not have been there, you just don't have any information at this time on that subject?
A I did not see him moved.
Q I understand that, but I am saying that it might have happened when your back was turned for some other purpose, may it not?

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Are you saying it did not happen, that is, Dr. MacDonald being moved from the position you first saw him --

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MR. SEGAL: If Your Honor please, I would appreciate being able to finish the question. I think it is a different question from what I have asked before. May I proceed?

THE COURT: Sure.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q What I am asking you, Mr. Tevere, is are you telling us that you are clear in your own mind that you were not in the room when Dr. MacDonald's body was moved?
A No, I said I did not see Dr. MacDonald's body moved. I may have been in the room. My back may have been to Dr. MacDonald. I may have been speaking to Lieutenant Paulk or doing something else. I may also not have been in the room at all.
Q Did you assist in lifting Dr. MacDonald onto the stretcher?
A Yes, I did.
Q Who were the other persons who participated in that act?
A One of the medics, Spec. 4 Mica, and I am not sure who else. It may have been Lieutenant Paulk and it may have been another MP. I am really not sure.
Q Do you, offhand, know the name of the medic?
A No, I don't. I had never seen the medics before. The other MPs, I knew, because we had been in the same company for several months.
Q Now, I am interested in having you, if you can, show us how these persons lifted Dr. MacDonald onto the stretcher? If Your Honor please, I would ask leave of the Court merely to have Mr. Tevere come down and show us around an imaginary space on the floor the procedure that these people followed. May he do that, sir?

MR. MURTAGH: Your Honor, we feel that there should be some offer of relevancy at this point. The witness has testified that he was lifting --

THE COURT: (Interposing) Are you OBJECTING?

MR. MURTAGH: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: I will OVERRULE it. I will let the witness make the demonstration requested by counsel.

MR. SEGAL: Thank you, Your Honor.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Will you pick an imaginary area where Dr. MacDonald's body would be and tell us how the four military persons lifted it?
A If Dr. MacDonald was lying this way (indicating), his head would be here (indicating). His feet would be down here (indicating). They brought the stretcher in right by his feet and wheeled it up behind him. I stood on this side of him (indicating) with another MP here to my left. There was one MP across from me where Dr. MacDonald's head was. I think the medic was on the other side of me who wheeled in the stretcher. We then lifted him -- I lifted from his mid-section with his hips and his legs. The other MP lifted him where the shoulders are on this side (indicating). Mica was on the other side and lifted him from his shoulders. The medic lifted him across from me the same way at his hips and waist.
Q If you would not consider it embarrassing, my only purpose is if you would actually show us, go down as far as necessary, first of all, to show us how you yourself, to the best of your recollection, participated in lifting?
A Knelt down.
Q All right. Would you just hold that and let me describe that for the record. Let the record reflect, if Your Honor pleases, that Mr. Tevere is squatted down on his haunches. All right.
A Put my hands under Dr. MacDonald -- around his legs and his waist.
Q (Indicating) Two hands under his waist?
A No, under -- one hand under his right leg and the other on his waist.
Q All right, sir.
A We then, at the same time, lifted him up onto the stretcher.
Q You indicated in a stretching motion. Was that how you did it? You actually stretched over or did you move him?
A We picked him up and we just took one step because the stretcher was right behind Dr. MacDonald.
Q You say that you took a step?
A Well, just one step.
Q How about the medic or the person who was on the opposite side? Could you now show us how that person moved?
A I don't remember. I was not watching the other three people moving.

MR. SEGAL: All right, thank you. I appreciate it. You may return to the stand.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Would it be fair to conclude that the military person opposite you also had to take a step of some sort?

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION.

MR. ANDERSON: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Do you know whether or not any of the other three people had to move when you moved to move Dr. MacDonald's body?

MR. ANDERSON: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q You may answer.
A I think it is obvious that if I moved and took a step toward Dr. MacDonald on the stretcher, the other three would also have to move because I could not hold him myself.
Q And then you all four lowered his body onto the stretcher?
A The stretcher was only maybe eight inches off the ground. We placed him on the stretcher.
Q All right. You placed the body on the stretcher. Was the purpose of this maneuver, as far as you were concerned, to take care to see whether this person could be handled gently for the purpose of getting him quickly out of there to get medical care?
A We didn't know -- I am not a medical person, and I didn't know what kind of injuries Dr. MacDonald may have had. He may have had internal injuries. We were not going to just pick him up and throw him on the stretcher.
Q No, no. I did not suggest that. I just suggested was the purpose to be careful with him and make sure that he got to the hospital?
A Naturally, yes.
Q All right. That was the primary interest that you had at that time?
A Correct.
Q You were not worried whether there was anything on the floor at that point --

MR. MURTAGH: (Interposing) OBJECTION.

MR. SEGAL: I asked the question about his mind. I would like to be able to finish the question.

THE COURT: Why don't you go ahead.

MR. SEGAL: I am sorry. I did not hear Your Honor. If you will permit me?

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Your concern at that point was not whether there was anything on the floor to be looking out for, was it?
A If there was something on the floor that I thought I would not want to step on or touch, I would have made sure that we didn't.
Q All right. If you had seen a weapon on the floor, you would have been careful of that?
A That is right. I saw a weapon near the dresser and I made sure that no one touched it.
Q All right. You were very careful about that?
A Tried to be, yes.
Q But if you saw a piece of paper on the floor, it may or may not have been important?

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Did you notice if there were any fibers on the floor at that point?

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: I saw no fibers.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Did you notice if there were any hairs on the floor at that point?
A I saw no hairs.
Q I am sorry. I didn't hear your answer.
A I saw no hairs on the floor.
Q I am asking you whether you noticed --
A (Interposing) No. If I noticed, I would have told you.
Q I wasn't clear as to your answer. You are not saying that there was or there was not, but you simply did not take note of that?
A I did not see a hair on the floor or a fiber.
Q Does that mean that you took notice and there was nothing there, or does that mean that you didn't take notice and can't tell us one way or the other?

MR. ANDERSON: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: That means that I saw no hairs on the floor. Had I seen a hair on the floor, I would have told you. Obviously, I did look at the floor.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Let me ask you this way, Mr. Tevere. Did you look for any hairs on the floor at that point?
A No.
Q Did you look for any fibers on the floor at that point?
A No.
Q All right. At that point, you then participated in the maneuver of taking Dr. MacDonald down the hall; right?
A Correct.
Q When you got to the end of the hallway where the steps were, I gather from your testimony this morning that you had your back to those steps?
A Yes.
Q How did you go down those steps with the stretcher?
A I went down backwards.
Q What was your concern, if any, at that point, as you were taking that stretcher down the steps?
A Well, I told the other MPs and the medic who lifted the stretcher not to bounce the stretcher on the stairs because there were two steps there.
Q Would it be fair to say that your concern was again for the care of the man on the stretcher?
A Obviously.
Q Did you notice any fibers on the floor at the head of the stairs at that point?
A Fibers?
A Yes, sir.
Q No.
Q Did you notice -- did you look to see whether any such thing was there?
A Did I look for a fiber?
Q Yes.
A I was not in the house looking for fibers.
Q I only asked you if you looked.
A I did not see a fiber.
Q You didn't look for any, did you?
A But I didn't see one.
Q I understand, but you didn't look for any?
A Had I seen a fiber on the floor, I may have said, "Well, there is a fiber," but I did not see a fiber on the floor.
Q So, you would have put the patient down and said, "Wait. I see a fiber on the floor." Is that right?
A You asked me if I looked for a fiber. You asked me if I saw a fiber. I did not see a fiber. I wasn't in the house looking for fibers.
Q I am sorry?
A I was not looking for fibers in the house.

THE COURT: I think we have explored that far enough. Go ahead to something else.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q You navigated down the two steps and the other men navigated down the steps; is that right?
A Correct.
Q When you got in the living room, did you put the stretcher back on the floor?
A Yes, we did.
Q And the stretcher was rolled out?
A Yes, sir.
Q All right. Who did that?
A I don't recall. I only went as far as the front door. There were, I think, other MPs at the front door and outside the house.
Q If I could ask you to show us, please, on this model, just where the stretcher came to rest when you last handled it -- that would be helpful.
A Right here (indicating).
Q You are indicating near what looks like the front door of the MacDonald house, so that you helped roll it across the living room floor?
A Yes, sir.
Q Can you indicate with your finger, if you don't mind, please, the path that you and the other members with the stretcher took?
A Through here.
Q You were going due west, it looks like. If you could, describe it.
A We were coming west through here and right out to the door.
Q All right -- it seems to be west almost until you got past -- this looks like an upright buffet of some sort?
A Yes.
Q And at that point a left angle turn was made going to the door?
A Yes -- well, yes.
Q If that is not correct, please correct me.
A That was the direction. We did not make a sharp angle -- we came in a curve.
Q And you were still pulling at the front of the stretcher going across the floor?
A Yes.
Q Still going backwards at that point?
A I don't remember.
Q Still concerned about the man on the stretcher?
A Yes.
Q Not looking for fibers or hairs on the floor?
A No fibers or hairs.
Q When you got to the door, the other persons took the stretcher out of the house?
A Yes, sir.
Q You were standing near the door, is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And where did you go after that?
A Back into the master bedroom.
Q And as you walked back into the master bedroom across the floor of the living room, did you see any wet footprints?
A No.
Q Do you mean to say the four men and the stretcher had gone across the floor but there was no indication at all in any way that anybody had passed over that floor at that time?
A That is correct.
Q Beg your pardon?
A Correct.
Q And you got to the steps, then -- is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q The steps where four men and a stretcher had come over just a few seconds before, is that right, Mr. Tevere?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you see any wet footprints on the floor there?
A No, sir.
Q See any indication that anybody had just passed over that part of the floor?
A No, sir.
Q Then we have the hallway -- you walked down the hallway to the master bedroom?
A Right.
Q And I suppose it is correct to say there was no indication in that hallway of wet footprints, track marks from the stretcher or anything else to indicate that four men and a stretcher had just passed that way?
A Not to the best of my knowledge -- no.
Q I wonder if you would point out for me, if you don't mind, on this model, to where there was clothing at the end of the hallway -- right at the living room here.
A Right here (indicating).
Q Can you describe it for us -- whether it is the steps or the living room?
A I think it was on the step and also on the living room floor -- right here in this area.
Q That would be on the south side of this doorway that connects the hallway to the living room -- is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Thank you -- you can go back to the stand. Do you recall anything at all about that pile of clothing in terms of what was there? What type of items?
A It looked like maybe a pajama top or a little pajama.
Q What color was it?
A Red and white, I think.
Q Was there more than one item there?
A I think only one -- to the best of my knowledge -- I did not pick it up and count. You know, it looked like just one item.
Q Did it strike you as being very important in this matter at that time?
A No.
Q You and the other men passed by it taking the stretcher out -- is that right?
A Yes.
Q And the ambulance personnel with the stretcher had passed by it coming there to the bedroom before -- is that right?
A He would have to -- in order to get to the master bedroom.
Q You have no idea whether any of these persons ever touched or removed those items of clothing before they got to the room, do you?
A No.
Q Do you know whether you, by any chance -- with your foot or otherwise -- happened to touch it as you passed by?
A No, I didn't.
Q You may or may not?
A To the best of my knowledge, I didn't.
Q I realize that. You may or may not would be correct?
A To the best of my knowledge, I didn't step on it.
Q How would you be aware of such a thing as you were going down the steps if you were concerned about this human being -- apparently injured -- on a stretcher?

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Now, when you went back to the master bedroom, who was there?
A Lieutenant Paulk. I believe the photographer came in at that time. I think Bill Ivory from CID -- I'm not sure -- Colonel Kriwanek may have arrived at that time.
Q This man named "Ivory" -- what do you mean when you say "the man from CID, named 'Ivory'"? To some of us that's not necessarily a term that we're familiar with.
A I said, "Bill Ivory."
Q Who is William Ivory?
A He was a man that worked in the Criminal Investigation Division.
Q Like a detective, right?
A I guess so. Is that what a CID man is? I always knew them as CID men.
Q What are CID men?

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Being a member of the Military Police, what is the relationship to you in being in the Military Police?
A They worked in the Criminal Investigation Division of the Army.
Q And you have no idea whether they work like detectives or not; is that right?

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: I don't know -- you know I was never a CID man -- I knew what a Military Policeman did -- but they were criminal investigators -- they were an investigator for the Army.

Q Mr. Tevere, aren't they part of the Provost Marshal General's Office of the Army?
A Yes, sir.
Q The Provost Marshal General is like the chief of police in the Army; isn't he?
A Correct.
Q The Military Police are under his command?
A Yes, sir.
Q The Criminal Investigation Division is under his command?
A Yes, sir.
Q You don't know what they do over there, right?
A I didn't say that. You asked me if he was a detective.
Q Are they like detectives at all?
A I guess they are, yes.
Q That's why this man "Ivory" was back there, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q A photographer was back there?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you see what they did at that point?

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE WITNESS: No, sir.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Now, at that point, was it Mr. Ivory and Kriwanek that were there -- who was in charge now of this crime scene?

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: It assumes somebody was in charge. If so, I will let you answer the question.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q If anybody was in charge at all, who was it at that point?
A Up to the time that Ivory and Kriwanek got there, I would say that Lieutenant Paulk was in charge. He was the highest-ranking man in the apartment; he was a 1st Lieutenant. I was only a Sergeant.
Q When you came back and found Colonel Kriwanek there -- to the best of your knowledge and understanding -- who was now in charge of the crime scene?
A Well, Colonel Kriwanek would have been -- the Colonel was a "Colonel" -- he outranked Lieutenant Paulk. We didn't stand and decide who was going to be in charge.
Q I understand that. He was a Colonel -- what branch of the Army was he in -- was he a doctor?
A He was a Provost Marshal at Fort Bragg.
Q He was a Military Policeman?
A Yes, sir.
Q A Chief of Police at Fort Bragg for all effect and purpose?
A That's right -- he was a Provost Marshal -- yes.
Q What, if anything, did he say or do while you were present?
A He asked what happened -- he asked what we did.
Q Let's take it one bit at a time -- what is the first thing you recall that he said and then tell us who, if anybody, answered.
A He asked what we had done up to that point.
Q Did he address that to all the MPs generally there?
A I think Lieutenant Paulk and myself -- or Lieutenant Paulk.
Q Did anyone respond to him?
A Lieutenant Paulk did.
Q What did Lieutenant Paulk tell him?
A I don't remember.
Q Don't you remember anything Lieutenant Paulk said to him?
A I remember Lieutenant Paulk giving him the description of the people that were the intruders that Doctor MacDonald told us.
Q Tell us to the best of your recollection what do you remember Lieutenant Paulk saying to Colonel Kriwanek.
A He told Colonel Kriwanek that Doctor MacDonald told him a band of hippies invaded the house. He described a male Negro with a field jacket with sergeant stripes; 2 male Caucasians; and a blonde wearing a floppy hat, carrying a candle and saying, "acid is groovy; kill the pigs."
Q Did Colonel Kriwanek say anything about that or do anything in regard to that information?
A I don't remember.
Q What is the next thing that was said or done at that point?
A He asked who were the first people in the house and who were directly involved. I told him I was and Spec. 4 Mica and Spec. 4 D'Amore. And he told us to come with him to the Provost Marshal's Office.
Q And did you, in fact, at that juncture leave the MacDonald house?
A Yes, sir.
Q Is that the last time you were there on February 17, 1970?
A Yes, sir.
Q About what time was that?
A About 4:10 a.m.
Q Somewhere about an hour and fifteen minutes after you first arrived?
A About 20 minutes after I arrived.
Q What time did you say you got there?
A 3:50.
Q Oh, at 4:10 you left there. Beg your pardon. You were there 15 minutes?
A 20 minutes.
Q 20 minutes -- all right. And where did you go after you left the MacDonald house?
A I went to the Provost Marshal's Office.
Q And how long did that little trip take?
A Five minutes.
Q And what did you do there?
A Went to Colonel Kriwanek's office to take of all of our MP gear and loosen up our shirts and wrote a statement out.
Q Your statement was handwritten?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did someone type it up afterwards?
A Yes, it was.

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: I'll let him say, if he knows.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Were you shown the typewritten statement afterwards?
A Yes, I was.
Q Did you review it?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did you find it satisfactory?
A Yes, I did.
Q It represented the matters you had written down in hand?
A Right.
Q What are the subjects that you covered in that memorandum?
A Basically what I did and how I did it.
Q Did it include the words, if any, Dr. MacDonald spoke while you were present?
A Yes.
Q Did you put the words down there as accurately as you could remember that were being spoken by Dr. MacDonald?
A To the best of my knowledge.
Q That was the purpose, to get the words of the witnesses down?
A Right.
Q Now in that document, you put down the fact that Dr. MacDonald gave information about the people he said attacked him and killed his family, didn't you?
A Yes.
Q You put that down and you put down a description of those persons, is that right?
A I believe so.
Q Have you never seen that since 1970, that statement?
A No, I haven't.
Q The Government has never shown you that statement?

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Go ahead?
A I haven't seen it. Now I may have seen it a week or so after I wrote it, but it has been nine and a half years.
Q There should be no secret about it. Let's look at it. Before we go to the statement, I just want to ask you one other thing. You have told us both this morning and this afternoon that Dr. MacDonald said that the attacks on himself and on his family were committed by a group of hippies; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now are those your words describing what Dr. MacDonald said; in other words, is that your word, "hippie," or is that Dr. MacDonald's word, "hippie"?
A It was Dr. MacDonald's word.
Q Let's take a look. If I may have marked as D-1 for identification, a two-page document. I'll show it to the Government in a second.

(Defendant Exhibit 1 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Let me show you, Mr. Tevere, what is identified as D-1 for identification only, a two-page document, typewritten, and as to whether it appears familiar to you in any way?
A It appears to be my statement. I have not read the whole statement.
Q Take your time, and read it if you like?

(Witness peruses document.)

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Have you had a chance to look it over, Mr. Tevere?
A Yes, I have.
Q Does that statement contain the information that Dr. MacDonald had given to you about the four people he said that attacked him and killed his family?
A Yes.
Q Does it give a description of those persons?
A Yes.
Q Would you read us that portion of your statement which gives the description?
A "The male victim said there were two male Caucasians, one male Negro, one female blonde Caucasian carrying a candle. He said that they stabbed him and beat him with an unknown object. He said that they kept saying, 'Acid is groovy' and to 'Kill the Pigs.'"
Q There weren't any further descriptions of the people in there?
A No, there are not.
Q Anywhere in there, did you put down that Dr. MacDonald said that the people were "hippies" or a "band of hippies"?
A No.
Q Whose word is that? Who invented that word in this case?
A I didn't invent the word.
Q Is it fair to say that it is probably just a way that was used to describe the people that Dr. MacDonald gave information about rather than being his words?

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE WITNESS: No.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Do you remember being interviewed by Special Agent Thomas McNally of the Federal Bureau of Investigation on March 2, 1970?
A I don't recall.
Q Do you recall talking to an FBI Agent about this case in March -- early after it happened?
A Yes.
Q Have you ever been shown the statement that Agent McNally prepared of his interview with you?
A No, sir.
Q I would like to show it to you, and again ask you to examine it for the information that Agent McNally says you gave him about the description you said you got from Dr. MacDonald. I would like to have it marked as D-2 for identification.

(Defendant Exhibit 2 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Mr. Tevere, I want to hand you now and ask you to look at, please, a three-page typewritten document marked as Defendant Exhibit 2, and I ask you if the contents of that document, and the words therein, seem familiar to you?

(Witness peruses document.)

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Have you had a chance to examine that three-page document, Mr. Tevere?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you want any more time to look at it?
A No, that is fine.
Q Do the words seem familiar to you?
A Yes, they do.
Q And do they seem to you as if they are the words that you spoke to the FBI agent in March of 1970?
A Yes, sir.
Q Does that statement you made to Agent McNally contain your repetition of what Dr. MacDonald told you as a description of the people who attacked himself and killed his family?
A There's no description of any people in this statement.
Q No description at all?
A No.
Q No mention of the lady with long blonde hair and floppy hat?
A No, sir.
Q No description at all about any information at all?
A No, sir.
Q Any information there indicating that Dr. MacDonald told you that this was a group of hippies -- that that was his word?
A No, sir.
Q I want to ask you something about some photographs now.

MR. MURTAGH: OBJECTION, Your Honor. May we have a sidebar, please?

THE COURT: Yes.


B E N C H C O N F E R E N C E

MR. MURTAGH: Your Honor, I believe Mr. Segal is about to show the witness pictures which were taken in daylight as the Court can tell from the outside. Objects in the crime scene were moved after the initial photographing of the scene. If Mr. Segal intends to do that, it seems to me that he should -- since it's not cross-examination, it is direct -- he should lay a proper foundation; and he should show all the photographs and ask if the witness was present at the time they were taken.
The objects at the end of the couch were moved. There is an explanation as to why they were moved; and I represent to the Court that the scene was photographed as showing them on the steps prior to this photograph, which was taken when the CID team arrived from Fort Gordon, some time around noon on the morning of the 17th.
This was done at the Article 32 investigation, and I think it confuses the issue. It is confusing to the witness. We didn't show any photographs to the witness on Direct Examination, and I object.

MR. SEGAL: May I be heard?

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. SEGAL: On Direct Examination this witness has testified that the scene in the living room and the rest of the house was viewed by him as a crime scene and was protected. He gave many instructions to people. He also said that the flower pot in the living room on the floor next to the coffee table was lying on its side.
I want to show him this photograph at this time because it has been supplied by the Government. It was evidence at the Article 32. It has been used by the Government in the grand jury to show to witnesses. It purported to be photographs of the crime scene taken by the Government's photographers.
Now, this person was in that living room. I think he is prepared to say whether or not this appears to be a fair and accurate representation of the way the furniture was placed. I have nothing to say about the lighting when he was there. It is only a question of the placement of furniture, and the items; and I will ask him, is the pot that is there in the position that he last saw it in the living room.
I want to further represent to Your Honor that we will develop without any doubt that the witnesses will tell how the crime scene items were moved, and that this specific flower pot was moved in fact. It then goes to the very heart of the Government's case that they contend that they protected this crime scene properly, and that therefore all the inferences that they want the jury to draw from the physical evidence in the placement of things are correct inferences.

THE COURT: The basis of the Government's objection, if I understand it, is that the witness has been asked nothing about this photograph or any photograph. That being so, it is really not -- it is within the province of the Court, as I understand it, not to admit any evidence by it.
It is my practice where we have a witness from New York, and we have him here for one day, if we could get rid of him -- and it looks like we may not be able to do that -- to let him go ahead.
However, I would hold you to the rule that insofar as your asking questions not related to anything asked under Direct Examination that he becomes your witness, and you have to lay, if necessary, the proper foundation for his testimony.

MR. SEGAL: I understand Your Honor's ruling. As I recall the Government's Direct Examination, though, they developed from him all his efforts to make sure the crime scene was untouched. He also said when I cross examined him that the flower pot was lying on its side. Now, it is clear in this case, Your Honor, that the Government will eventually produce the photographer; or, if we have a stipulation, it will be that whenever that photographer came in that morning these are part of hundreds of photographs he took.
These are Government photographs. They took them; they supplied them as required by discovery. Now for them to contend that somehow this is not an accurate representation of the crime scene --

THE COURT: I don't know that they are contending that.

MR. SEGAL: Wait a minute.

MR. MURTAGH: If I may respond --

THE COURT: Are you contending that it is?

MR. SEGAL: It is the crime scene as Mr. Ivory and the other CID investigators saw it, from which they made a series of erroneous deductions that this was staged, because there is testimony under oath that this -- they stated that this pot could not have been in that position because in falling off the table, the dirt and the pot would both be lying down, from which the investigators concluded that this was therefore a staged crime scene, and MacDonald must have done it. They made that decision between 5:00 and 6:00 in the morning, and it led them to one series of errors after another. Now, either we are allowed to show it through him now or we will have to hold Tevere here indefinitely. But this photograph is one that the Government purports to show the position of the evidence as found by the investigators.
It is not, however, as the scene actually was when the MPs got there. They have been led astray, it is argued, because of that essential error in not preserving the crime scene properly.

MR. MURTAGH: Your Honor, could I respond?
The flower pot was apparently moved and stood up by a medic or an ambulance driver.

THE COURT: Stood up?

MR. MURTAGH: Yes, sir; and that is why we brought it out, because it was the upright position of the flower pot which caused the investigators to think this could not have landed in this position. But further, Your Honor, I represent to the Court that the Government does not intend to introduce that photograph, does not intend to draw any inferences from that flower pot; and further that these clothes were moved to permit the removal of the bodies, and there are photographs which depict the crime scene with the bodies in there --

THE COURT: (Interposing) I will SUSTAIN the objection at this time without prejudice to the Defendant's right to develop it through other sources, including this witness if need be.

(Bench conference terminated.)

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Mr. Tevere, I gather that you did not stay in the MacDonald house while the photographer went about taking pictures; is that right?
A Right.
Q Have you at any time at all from 1973 to the present day been shown photographs of the inside of the MacDonald house by Counsel for the Government or any investigators of the Government?
A I think in '72 or '73, I was shown some pictures.
Q 1973?
A I think I was -- '73 or '74.
Q Are you referring to the grand jury proceedings?
A I believe so; yes.
Q That would be 1974, then?
A Correct.
Q Were you shown photographs by the Government for the purpose of having you identify whether they represented parts of the MacDonald house as you saw them on the morning of February 17, 1970?
A Yes, sir.
Q Were you in fact able to identify those photographs as part of the MacDonald house as you saw them back on that night?
A Yes, sir.

MR. SEGAL: If Your Honor pleases, I ask the Government to make those photographs available now.

MR. MURTAGH: Your Honor, we can make all of the crime scene photographs by whatever photographer taken available and have done so to the Defense.

THE COURT: All right. He says you already have them.

MR. SEGAL: Your Honor, we want the photographs, if Your Honor pleases, in view of the Government's objection, that this witness was shown since the Government objects to my showing him other photographs that they have produced.

THE COURT: Now, don't argue your case from there about evidence to be admitted. Ask your question.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q What did those photographs depict that you were shown at the grand jury proceedings?
A They showed me a photograph of the telephone on the dresser.
Q All right. What else?
A Asked me if the phone receiver was hanging down the way it was in the picture. I said, "No. I placed it on top of the dresser."
Q All right. Besides a telephone receiver -- that was in which bedroom?
A The master bedroom.
Q You are saying you were shown a photograph by the Government, right, and asked whether that was the way and the position that the phone was hanging when you left the MacDonald house?
A Yes, sir.
Q When you saw that photograph, you said it was not the position; is that correct?
A That is correct.
Q Was that a color photograph or a black and white photograph?
A I believe it was a color photograph.
Q Do you recall any other photographs you were shown by the Government?
A I was shown one of the kitchen phone hanging down. I said that was how I saw it.
Q I am sorry. You said what?
A I was shown a photograph of a kitchen phone with the receiver hanging down to the ground. And I was asked if that was the way I saw the phone. And I said "yes."
Q All right. Were you shown any photographs of the living room in the MacDonald house?
A Yes.
Q Were you shown a photograph which depicted the sofa in the MacDonald house and the furniture around it?
A Yes, sir.
Q Does that picture show a coffee table and a little chair there?
A Yes, sir.
Q Does it show a flower pot?
A Yes, sir.
Q What position was the flower pot in?
A Standing up.
Q I am going to shown you a photograph and ask you if you recognize this photograph to be the same one shown then?
Does the Government wish to object now?

MR. MURTAGH: No, Mr. Segal, not if you show him both photographs.

MR. SEGAL: May we have two photographs marked D-3 and D-4 for identification.

(Defendant Exhibits Nos. 3 and 4 were marked for identification.)

MR. MURTAGH: Mr. Segal, those are not the two photographs to which I am referring.
Your Honor, we OBJECT to those photographs.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MR. SEGAL: May we have the basis of Your Honor's ruling?

THE COURT: You already have it. That was the subject of the sidebar conference.

MR. SEGAL: I understood this witness has now said he can identify photographs that were shown him by the Government. And I want to offer them as to whether these are the photographs he was shown, sir. I think we have an adequate foundation for that at this time.

THE COURT: I will let the witness look at them privately and see if these were some that he was shown.

MR. SEGAL: I agree, Your Honor. We may proceed privately.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Mr. Tevere, would you just please examine those yourself and I will find you a few more also. Perhaps they may also be familiar.

MR. ANDERSON: OBJECT to the comments of Counsel, Your Honor.

THE COURT: I will not try to undo this last one. But I will ask Counsel not to be talking between questions.

MR. SEGAL: Certainly, Your Honor.

MR. MURTAGH: Your Honor, may I approach the Bench?

THE COURT: Yes.


B E N C H C O N F E R E N C E

MR. MURTAGH: Your Honor, what Mr. Segal has here, and for the record, I might say Defendant's 6 and Defendant's 5, I represent to the Court were taken by a CID photographer from the laboratory by the name of Mr. Page. I also represent to the Court that those photographs were taken not before or not earlier than, say, 12:00 o'clock in the morning of the crime and after the bodies had been removed and after two photographers who were at the post, a Mr. Alexander and a Mr. Squires, had photographed the entire scene.
If I could -- the Government is referring to Government's Exhibit 75 which depicts the clothing at the end of the stairs and the body of Colette MacDonald.

(Defendant Exhibits Nos. 5 and 6 were marked for identification.)

MR. SEGAL: OBJECTION. I have a suggestion, Your Honor. I will introduce any photograph the Government wants me to right now. I am not trying to hold any photographs out.

MR. MURTAGH: Your Honor, Government Exhibit 23 and Government Exhibit 24 which are part of the Squires series, the flower pot was indeed moved. We brought it out for the purpose of showing that it was lying on its side and had been moved.
We will adduce testimony, I believe, on that. But what we object to is the clothing which was removed to permit removal of the stretchers of the MacDonald bodies -- not Jeffrey's, but Colette and the children.
What we are saying, it is confusing the issues.

THE COURT: That is probably an understatement because I am not sure I understand it either. I understood that the Defendant was interested in showing that this flower pot was standing straight up and that that in turn would be probative of the Defense theory that they staged the thing themselves before taking the picture.

MR. MURTAGH: No, Judge. What happened was the Chief Investigator got in and saw the flower pot standing like that and assumed that it had not been moved and concluded that it had been staged.
It is the Government's erroneous conclusion in the initial stages of the investigation. We are not saying that the position of the flower pot shows that Dr. MacDonald staged this scene. The flower pot was moved. But this we know was moved.

THE COURT: I tell you what I think I will do: I will just SUSTAIN all objections to photographs at this time with the understanding that the people who took the photographs and the time at which they were taken will be the subject of testimony by witnesses better in position to say.
I can see the unfairness in asking a witness nine years later if this is a photograph that was taken right after the scene or if it shows exactly what he saw.
To the extent that any photograph taken at any time does not accord with his recollection and his testimony concerning it, then it will just be probative of whatever that shows. But I think a better way to do it in view of the way this has come up is just to withhold all testimony about photographs until the people who took them -- they can be more properly identified. Then, if it required further cross-examination or examination as the case may be of this witness, then so be it.

MR. MURTAGH: Your Honor, I might as well make an offer of proof at this time. The Government will adduce through the investigators who were present throughout the photographing of the crime scene the photographs in the sequence in which they were taken.
The photographers are available for cross-examination. But, for example, the man who took this can't testify to what the scene looked like at 4:00 o'clock in the morning. The agent can; he was there throughout. That is the way we would do it.

THE COURT: All right.

(Bench conference terminated.)


THE COURT: The ruling is basically that testimony concerning photographs will be withheld at this time with the understanding that the people who took the photographs and witnesses competent to testify about what they show and when they were taken will later be offered and available to both sides.

MR. SEGAL: Very well, Your Honor. Just for the record, I had intended to show Mr. Tevere two additional photographs. May the record so reflect that the photo which I caused to have marked as D-5 and D-6 is among those. And we will withhold those, of course, until such time as the photographer is called by the Government and the background and foundation for these photographs is adduced.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. MURTAGH: I believe the Court's ruling was that the photographer or witness competent to testify.

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. MURTAGH: I represent to the Court we will bring a witness competent to testify.

THE COURT: Very well.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Mr. Tevere, when you went back to Colonel Kriwanek's office at his headquarters, you prepared a statement and you have identified it this afternoon; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q After that was typed and you had a chance to review it, what did you do next?
A Went back to the barracks to get some sleep.
Q That was the end of your connection that evening with the MacDonald case?
A That morning; yes.
Q When you were back at Colonel Kriwanek's office, did you at any time take a look at the soles of your boots to see whether any fibers or hairs or grass had become attached to it?
A No; I didn't.
Q When you went back to the barracks and took off your boots to get some well-deserved sleep, did you notice any hairs or fibers or grass on the bottom of your boots?
A No, sir.

MR. SEGAL: Subject to Your Honor's ruling, I have no further questions of Mr. Tevere at this time. But it is likely he will have to be recalled again, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right.
Will there be redirect examination?

MR. BLACKBURN: No, sir.

THE COURT: Very well. That almost exactly coincides with our afternoon recess hour. So, we will take that at this time, members of the jury.
I won't go through all the things that you are not supposed to do. But I am going to ask you to do one, and that is about our Friday schedule. I have a little ballot here that you can take and look at and decide what schedule you would like for the Court to follow tomorrow.
We will take your verdict on that when you come back.
Take a recess until 4:00 o'clock.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, before we recess, I notice Mr. Segal said he might recall this witness. But subject to that recall, is he free to go?

MR. SEGAL: Certainly.

THE COURT: All right. Take a recess until 4:00 o'clock, please.

(The proceeding was recessed at 3:44 p.m., to reconvene at 4:00 p.m., this same day.)


F U R T H E R P R O C E E D I N G S 4:00 p.m.

(The following proceedings were held in the presence of the jury and alternates.)

THE COURT: Members of the jury, the Court has received your first verdict. That is, that you would like to come at 9:00 tomorrow and adjourn at 3:00 tomorrow. That will be the hours that we will follow. That will cause us to have to abbreviate our recesses a little as we go along, but there will still be plenty of time, we hope, to get the business done.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, first, may we approach the Bench?

THE COURT: Yes, approach.


B E N C H C O N F E R E N C E

MR. MURTAGH: Judge, just as a housekeeping practice, we would like to move in our exhibits after a witness has testified and is subjected to cross-examination.

THE COURT: The Court has no particular practice or preference. Some lawyers, as soon as the exhibit is identified, put it in right that minute. Some wait until he finishes. You just take your pick.

MR. MURTAGH: Okay. I think we will -- at this time, we would ask that Government Exhibit Number One, the model which has been stipulated to -- do you want to do that in open Court?

THE COURT: Yes, okay.

(Bench conference terminated.)


MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, at this time, the Government would move that Exhibit Number One, which is the model, and the two photographs over there on the easel, Government Exhibits, I believe, 967 and 968, into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits 1, 967 and 968 were received into evidence.)

MR.BLACKBURN: Also, at this time, we would call Kenneth Mica.

THE COURT: All right.

Note from Christina Masewicz: The Court Reporter's misspellings of Cellic, Summers and Hagney were correct to read Sellick, Somers and Hageny in the above transcript

 

 

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