June 14 and June 22, 1979: Transcript of MacDonald's hypnosis session with the late Dr. William S. Kroger
Note from Christina Masewicz: Below is the transcript of MacDonald's hypnosis session.
It is important to also read the Log of MacDonald's videotape that follows the transcript. Three people took part in the session, (1) The late Dr. William Kroger, (2) Dr. R. G. Douce, both well know for their work
in criminal hypnosis, and (3) Fernando Ponce, Los Angeles Police Department sketch artist, retired
who did the second set of sketches of the so-called intruders per MacDonald's descriptions.
From the files of Freddy Kassab marked as Jeffrey MacDonald's hypnosis session
and log notes
I'm reading - It's Mickey Spillane - It's almost 2 - 2 a.m. - And I turned the FM off - Get ready for bed - Kristie is in the bed - Colette's on her left side - She rolls over to her right side - Kristie starts to move - The bed's wet - Kristie wet the bed - I pick up Kristie and her bottle - Bring her to her room - Tuck her in - She's okay - I get a blanket - Go to the couch - After two - It's late - I lay down and go to sleep.
What's going on here? - What the hell are you people doing in my house?
What are you assholes doing here? - I start to get up. What the - Are you assholes doing here? - I see a girl - She says acid is rain - acid is rain - The black guy is going to hit me - He's got something in his hand - I am trying to get up - He does hit me - On the head - I am going back on the couch - My head hurts - I hear Colette - I hear my wife - Jeff - Jeff - Why - Why are they - Why are they doing this to me? - She's screaming, Jeff, help me - Jeff stop them.
He's moving toward to me - I'm trying to get up - The blanket is holding me down - I'm trying to get up - What the - Are you assholes doing in my house?
A girl's voice says - Acid is groovy, kill the pigs. - I said - What the - Acid is groovy?
A black guy standing there - He's raising something - I can't see it - It's behind him - He's raising something.
He's going to hit me - I hear the girl say - Acid is groovy - Kill the pigs.
Colette is screaming - I said - Get the - Out of here you assholes.
I hear Kimmy screaming - Daddy - Daddy - I hear Kimmy - I say - Kimmy I'll help you - I'll help you Kimmy - Kimmy is - Daddy - Daddy - Daddy - Daddy.
This - Is going to hit me - It's behind his shoulder, behind his right shoulder - I'm pushing up - I'm pushing up with my right hand and my left hand is up - These assholes - What are they doing here? - I've got to move forward so the black guy can't hit me so much - It's little punches - I grab hold of one of their shirt and pull myself up - The guy on the right - I grab his shirt - I'm pulling myself up - The creep in the middle - The little punk in the middle is punching me in the chest - He's a big doper - There's no question about it.
There's a girl between the two white guys - Acid is rain - I don't understand this - What the - Are they doing in my house - One guy is punching is punching me and the black guy is going to hit me with a club.
He's trying to hit me - My left arm hurts like crazy - He hit me in the left arm and shoulder - He's going to hit me again - It's just something swing - It hits me in the left hand and in the left upper arm - And it knocks me back flat on the couch again.
I've got to get up - I can't get up - I can't help - I can't help - I've got to get up - I can't - What the - Is going on - I can't - What is going on - I've got to get up - I'm still on the couch - I've got to get up - I'm still trying to get again now - I'm trying to get back up - The blanket is still up - I'm trying to pull it off with my right hand - The guy on the right is still punching me - The black guy swings again and this time I grab his arm - I've got his arm - I reach over with my right arm and I've got his arm.
He's got an army jacket on - He's got six stripes - Three- Three -V's on the top and one rocker on the bottom - It's black - I can't see well - It's a green jacket and the rocker - That's all I see and I'm holding on to his lower right arm and he's trying to jerk it out - I've got his hand - It's a weird glove - It's rough - I - I've got to fight - I've got to push this guy off - I can't let him hit me in the head with that club.
OK - I've got it - I've got his hand - They are worker rubber gloves - Gardening gloves or dishwasher gloves - Coarse - They go under the - The army jacket - I can't see the fingers - I have his hand - His fingers are wrapped around the club - It's a pretty big hand - Both my hands have his hands.
I'm getting punched in the head and - And - The right side of the head, the right chest - And the right arm -They are jerking me towards - They are jerking me towards the end of the couch - I'm trying to jerk the club away from this guy so I can use the club - I'm trying to jerk it away - I'm jerking on his hand and my left hand is sliding back on the club - I'm jerking - Something's in my way now - There's something over my head - There's something they are jerking on me you know - and I'm pushing on them and I'm jerking on the club all at once - Something is in my way - I can't push back at the two white guys - I can't push back - Well - Something is over my hands - My hands are all bound up - I can't pull as well - I can't push the white guys as well - And I can't pull on the club as well - They are wrapped up in something.
Can't get up - It's hard to get up now - I'm trying to get up - Can't get the - Blanket off my feet - It's an afghan - Can't get my feet out.
He's going to hit me again - I can't let him hit me in the head again - He's going to swing at me again - His arms are behind his right shoulder - He's going to hit me again - He swings something at me - He hit - My left arm and my left head - I've got his arm - I'm holding on to his arm so he can't hit me again - Head hurts - What the - Is going on here - Who are these guys?
I can't figure out what is going on - Why - Why is my wife screaming?
I've got his arm - He's trying to jerk it away - I'm sliding off his arm - If I let go - He is going to hit me again - I'm sitting up - I'm being jerked to the end of the couch - Two guys are punching me - They are pulling me to the end of the couch - I'm trying to push them away - I've got one guy's jacket and I'm still holding the guy's arm - They're pulling me to the end of the couch by my shirt - I can't see them - I'm all bound up - My pajama top is all around my arms - It's around my hands - I used it partially as a shield - He's going to hit me again.
They are punching me in the chest - I've got a terrific pain in my right chest - I see this girl between the two white guys - She's skinny - She looks wasted - She's standing there between the two white guys - There's a light on her face - She's blonde. - She's saying, - Acid is groovy, kill the pigs - Acid is groovy - Kill the pig - Acid and rain - Flickering light on her face - They're punching me in the chest - I'm trying to push away now - I've got a pain in my right chest - I said What the - Are you doing?
I'm bound up - My arms are all wrapped up - I can't do anything - I'm still trying to kick the - Blanket off my feet and my hands are bound up - I - I - I - Can't do anything - I'm trying to push them away.
My hands aren't free - They're not free and I can't do anything well - They're punching me in the chest - I've got a terrific pain in my right chest - My - Head hurts - I've got someone's hand - My hands are still bound up but I've a hand - I saw a blade - The - pain isn't a punch - I got stabbed, small knife - It's been pulled back - I'm going to get stabbed again - I can't get my hands free - I've got someone's arm - I don't think it is the same arm - I think the guy is going to stab me again - And the black guy still got the club.
My head isn't clear - I've got a - Pain in my head - They are punching me in my right chest - Both guys - Both guys - This guy's bigger than the guy in the middle - I think I've got his arm - He's trying to jerk his arm away - I'm trying to pull it away - I'm trying to pull it away - I've got both his arms - He's trying to stab me - There's a blade - I can't see a blade - He's trying to jerk his arms away - I know he - I know it - I know he's trying to pull his hands away - Someone is punching me - I got one arm - They are punching me.
Stomach - Stomach - Pain - I can't keep - Get a good hold - This guy's left arm - I've got - I'm trying to hold on to his left arm - He's trying to jerk it away - He's bigger – He – He's stronger - I can see this bigger guy - He's bigger - He's bigger and stronger - I've got his left arm - He's bigger and stronger - His hands are slippery - They feel slippery - I've got his left arm - I know he is going to stab me if I let go - I can't keep holding on - He's pulling his left arm away - I can't keep pulling away - My - head hurts.
I can't keep holding - My - Pajama top is wrapped all around - I can't free my arms - I can't keep his arm away and I can't get a good grip - Someone is punching me in the abdomen and the chest and I can't keep pushing away - Someone hit me with a club - In the left arm - I don't know what to do - I am trying to push them away - I've got to get my hands free - I've got to keep them away - Still trying to push them away - Acid is groovy, kill the pig - It's all I hear - No sounds - Acid is groovy - Kill the pig.
They're going to kill me - I'm trying to push them away - The arm is slipping away - I've got the hand - I can't keep on long - It's slippery - I can't keep holding on it's slippery - It feels wet - I can't keep my hands - Don't have a good grip - My pajama top is sliding over - I can't keep holding on - I can't do it - He's jerking his arm away - I'm sliding forward.
I'm sliding forward - I'm sliding forward - I - see - I see - A knee - See a bare knee - My arms they're so heavy - I can't get them up - I saw a knee - Wh - Why - I can't tell - What the - Is happening?
I see - The top - The top of a boot - The boot - Right after the knee - Bare leg - Top of a boot - White leg - Top of a boot - High boot - Light brown - Looks wet - Looks wet - Light brown it looks wet - Girl's leg - What the - I can't see - What is - My head hurts My - head.
I can't my head - I can't - I'm moving - I - I got hit in the head - It's dark - One split second - One split - One split second its dark - The steps - One split - split second - Steps - Coming up - Steps coming up - At my waist.
My hands are under me - I can't get my hands out - I can't get them out - My hands are under my chest - My chest hurts - I'm on the floor - My head hurts - My head hurts - I can't - I can't think - I feel cold - On the floor - My arms are under me - Face down - They are folded up under my chest - Pajama tops are on my wrist and hands - I smell wax on the floor - Wooden floor – Floor wax.
My teeth are chattering - My head hurts - I see - Can't clear my head - I can smell the floor – Remembering - I heard screams - It's quiet - I can't hear anything except my teeth - I'm getting up - I'm going to go see Colette - I go down the hallway - My head hurts like crazy and I feel like I'm going to pass out - I'm in the hallway - I feel like I can't breathe.
My head hurts - In front of the bathroom - Just walking into the bedroom - There's something on the floor - I can't see well - Colette - She's leaning against the green chair - Can't get the pajama top off my hands - I'm trying to find some light - I've got the light on - I've got to get the pajama top off - I'm pulling on it to get it off my hands - It's coming off - Off yes - Looking at Colette - She's bloody - There's a knife in her chest - I pulled the knife out - I lay her on the floor - I give her mouth to mouth - The air is coming out of her chest - The air is coming out of her chest - It's not working - Checking for pulse - She doesn't have a pulse - I remember Kimmy was screaming - I got up to go see Kimmy.
She looks bloody too - She's my little girl - She looks so funny - She looks dead - I've checked her left carotid - No pulse - I tilt her head back -I - I'm giving Kimmy mouth
to mouth - I can't see if her chest is rising - It doesn't - It sounds like bubbles - I think there's bubbles in her - In her neck - I can't figure out what's going on - Can't figure out why - Why she's - Why she's this way.
I've got to see if Kristen – Kristie - you better be okay - She's across the hall - She looks pale - She's in her bed - She's facing me - She looks pale - She doesn't - She doesn't look good - She doesn't look like she is breathing - I have to tilt her head up to feel her pulse - Her right carotid - I can't feel a pulse - I have to give her mouth-to-mouth - I don't think her chest is rising though - I don't think it's working on Kristie either - Going back to Colette - She looks terrible - She's got blood all over - I check for a femoral pulse - I can't believe - I can't find a pulse - It's my wife - Covering her chest - Something from the green chair - I can't see what it is - Seems like a towel - I picked up my pajama top - I put it on Colette - I go to the phone I pick up - I dial zero - An operator – Yes - This is Captain MacDonald - I need help - People are dying - We've been stabbed - 544 Castle Drive - Hurry - There's people been stabbed - We're dying - And MPs and ambulances - Send help - We need help - She says is it on the post or off post - I don't know - I can't figure out why she asked me that - I said it's on post - I threw the phone down - Standing at Colette's feet - I notice door is opened - The back door - Out - Outside door - It's cold out - And wet - I looked around to see if I could see people - Dark - My feet feel wet - I can see the grass - Winter grass - It's not green - I can see the sidewalk - It looks wet - Can't see anyone - I can't figure out what's going on - I can't figure out how to help Colette - I walk back down the hallway - I don't know - I don't know what to do - Standing in the hallway - I can't figure out what - What - I can't figure it out - My chest is hurting - Can't breath well - Can't - I can't clear my head.
I look down at my chest- I can see my chest bubbling a little - I go into the bathroom - I look in the mirror - I look at my head - The bruise at the left temple - Skin is broken a little - About two inches across - Doesn't look like it feels - There's blood smeared on my forehead - There's blood around my lips - On my hands - It's all over both hands - My stomach - There's a little bit around my chest.
I washed my hands - Go back to Colette - I picked up my pajama top - To see if her chest looks as bad as I first saw it - It looks horrible - She's - There's wounds all over her - I hugged her - I told her - The kids would be okay - I told her the kids would be okay- I'm kneeling next to her - I put my pajama top back - I decided to check the kids one more time - I can't believe it.
I've got to get up - I can't breathe well though - My head hurts - I get up - I have to push myself up - I got to - Got to check Kimmy - Kimmy is my little girl - I've got to see her.
I go back to see her - I give her mouth-to-mouth - Kimmy is limp - Kimmy looks terrible - I pick her up - My left hand is under her shoulder - Picking her up towards me - My right arm is under her neck - I give Kimmy mouth-to-mouth - It doesn't feel right - There's no resistance to her breathing - The air must be escaping - It must be coming out of her neck or chest - I put her back - She's got - She's got wounds in her upper chest or neck - It's not going to work - I can't help her – Mouth-to-mouth won't work - Check her pulse - I checked her femoral pulse - There's no pulse - I pick her up - Pick up bed clothes - Her bed clothes - And lay them on her - And go see Kristie.
I have to see Kristie - Kristie has to be okay - She's in her bed - I'm in Kristie room - I just patted her head and told her it would be okay - I told Kristie that - Everything would - Would be okay - I'd get help - She'd be okay - I put my right hand behind her back - She - I reach across her and checked her right carotid - There's no pulse -Straighten out her blankets - Went to call for help - I'm in the kitchen - pickup the phone - Someone on the phone - Woman said Is this Captain MacDonald?
Yes - I started yelling at her - People have been stabbed - We need help - We need police - MPs – Ambulances - Send ambulances - Hurry - We are all dying - I'll connect you she says - A male voice says it's sergeant someone - Can't make it out - I say send - Send help - I said need help - We need everything – Ambulances - MPs – Police – Help - We're dying we need help - Jesus Christ send some help - 544 Castle Drive - Yelling to someone - Make that ASAP to Womack - I dropped the phone - I'm standing there.
It's quiet - Looking at my hands - My head hurts - I can't clear my head - I can't - I can't - I can't think of what to do - My head is pounding - I can't - Reach up and touch the - The back of my head to feel why it's pounding so much - I have - I have to - Go be with Colette - In case – In case I can help when the ambulance comes - I'm laying next to Colette - That's it.
Someone is giving me mouth-to-mouth - They are blowing air into my mouth - It's harder to breathe I am trying – Trying to push them away - I started pushing them away - There's a bunch of people - They are all over me - A bunch of MPs helmets over me - Shiny helmets - White stripe - Lots of people yelling and screaming - He said what happened?
I said check my wife - Help me - Help kids - But please - Check my wife and kids - Please - He said you'll be okay - Everyone was yelling and screaming - Christ there fifteen people yelling and screaming - What happened?
Who did it?
Where are they?
How many were there?
What happened - Jesus Christ don't move that - Don't touch her - Put it down - Put it down - Check the other rooms - Put that down you asshole - Everyone is yelling - The guy over me - He said what happened?
He said are you a doctor - Someone said he's a doctor - This guy said are you a doctor - I said yeah - I'm a Captain – MacDonald - He said what happened?
Look at my wife - Jesus Christ - Look at my wife - He said it will be OK - Relax we'll help you - He was trying to help me.
He was pushing me back down.
I'm laying next to Colette - He was pushing me down but my head - On her shoulder - I didn't want my head to be on her shoulder - I - I wanted to get up and tell them what to do to help - I said help my kids.
Someone said - Jeez, Jesus Christ - The kids are - They're just like this - I said - Help them - He said - It's okay - They'll be okay – We're all checking them - Someone said I got to call for back up - This is too - Big for us.
There's a lot of noise and people are yelling get back-up - I can hear pounding - Pounding footsteps - He trying to push me down - I'm trying to push him away - I didn't want to lay on Colette.
They had to help Colette - I didn't want to lay on her - I'm trying to push off and I grab him by the shirt and he drags me away - He's trying to help me - He pulls me away - Pulls me about a foot away from Colette towards the doorway - I said - Gee - Jesus you've got to do mouth to mouth - No - No one's doing anything right - Except the guy trying to help me - I'm okay - I said - Help the kids - He says the kids are okay - I'm - I'm trying to think - They didn't - They didn't look okay to me - They didn't look - They didn't look okay.
June 14 and June 22, 1979: Log of MacDonald's videotape