The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site is a compendium of information about the Jeffrey MacDonald case. MacDonald was convicted in 1979 of the murders of his pregnant wife and two small daughters. He is serving three life sentences for that brutal crime.


The Murders of Colette, Kimberley and Kristen MacDonald
 

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site

1979 JEFFREY MACDONALD CASE TRIAL TRANSCRIPT
July 23, 1979: William Ivory, CID

 

F U R T H E R P R O C E E D I N G S 10:00 a.m.

THIS CAUSE came on for further trial before The Honorable Franklin T. Dupree, Jr., United States Chief District Judge, and a jury, on Monday, July 23, 1979, at Raleigh, North Carolina.

(The following proceedings were held in the presence of the jury and alternates.)

THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Any further evidence for the Government?

MR. BLACKBURN: Yes, sir; there is. We call Mr. Ivory back to the stand.

(Whereupon, WILLIAM F. IVORY, the witness on the stand at the time of recess, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:)

MR. BLACKBURN: Excuse me just one second, Your Honor.

(Counsel confer.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Let me have two photographs marked.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. BLACKBURN: 165 and 166.

(Government Exhibits 165 and 166 were marked for identification.)

MR. BLACKBURN: May I approach the witness, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. SEGAL: May we see it, please?

MR. BLACKBURN: I have already shown it to Mr. Smith.


D I R E C T E X A M I N A T I O N 10:01 a.m. (resumed)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit Number 165 and 166, and ask if you can identify those?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What are they?
A They are photographs of the building in which 544 Castle Drive is one of the apartments -- a rear view. Both are rear views of that house.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would move for these to be admitted into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits 165 and 166 were received in evidence.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, as I recall, Friday afternoon you had previously testified that Mr. Squires, I believe, had done some photographing in the MacDonald apartment; is that correct?
A Yes, sir; that is correct.
Q Did there come a time, sir, when anyone came to examine medically the bodies of the three victims?
A Yes, sir; there was.
Q When was that?
A It was just shortly before 5:00 a.m.
Q Do you know who that was?
A Yes, sir; it was a Dr. Neal, N-e-a-l, from the Womack Army Hospital.
Q Where were you when Dr. Neal came into the MacDonald apartment?
A I was with Mr. Squires, photographing the crime scene.
Q Do you recall which room you were in?
A Either the master bedroom or the bedroom of Kimberly MacDonald. I am not quite sure which room.
Q When Dr. Neal came in, what, if anything, did you do?
A I was notified that he was at the front door, I think, by a Mr. Connolly. We finished up the series of photographs we were working on at the time, and went directly to meet Dr. Neal and escorted him through the house to look at the bodies.
Q Where did you go first?
A Before entering any of the rooms, I asked him while he was there to make the official pronouncements of death. I asked him not to disturb anything. There were blood stains on the floor --

MR. SEGAL: (Interposing) Could you keep your voice up, please, Mr. Ivory?

THE WITNESS: I am sorry; I did not hear you.

MR. SEGAL: Could you please keep your voice up?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q If you would repeat your answer?
A I advised him that there were blood stains on the floor, and would he be careful where he was stepping and not to disturb anything. We went first to the bedroom of Kristen MacDonald.
He went to her, looked at her body; picked it up slightly; pulled it towards him, looking at the back where there were injuries on the back of the body; and then replaced it in generally the same position it was in.
It upset me quite a bit, and I told Dr. Neal not to move the bodies unless it was absolutely necessary, unless he saw that there were some signs of life, and then of course the body should be moved. He said that he wanted to tell me, you know, what the cause of death was; and I said, "Doctor, at this point, I am really not interested in what caused the death, only that there is death present in the body," and that he should not move any of the other bodies. He said, "Fine."
We moved then to the bedroom of Kimberly MacDonald. He went over to the side of the bed -- let me get my directions straight -- on the south side of the bed, viewed the body, reached across, touched the inside of the left wrist searching for a pulse. I saw him looking down into the injuries -- the head injuries and the throat injuries of the body -- and pronounced that body dead.
We went from there to the master bedroom to the body of Colette MacDonald, where he kind of -- he didn't kneel down, because his knees never really touched the floor -- but he kind of stooped down, if I could use that word, and looked at the body. One eye was open, and he reached and lifted the eyelid of the other eye; looked into it; touched the outstretched left arm at the wrist searching for a pulse; stood up and went around so he was standing in a position above the head and shoulders area of the body; again, kind of bent down; felt around the neck; didn't move the body -- nor did he move the body of Kimberly -- and made his announcement that Colette MacDonald was dead. Then he was escorted directly from the house.
Q Who escorted Dr. Neal directly from the house?
A I did. Excuse me, I think it was myself. I am not quite sure if Mr. Shaw was there, and Mr. Connolly was also present.
Q After Dr. Neal left the house, what, if anything, did you do?
A Well, he had moved the body of Kristen MacDonald. I then called Dr. Neal back into that room and rephotographed the body in the position where it had been after it had been moved by Dr. Neal.
Q Who rephotographed the body?
A Mr. Squires; I should say I caused the photograph to be made.
Q Okay; after that took place, what happened next?
A We finished the photographing of the miscellaneous items in the house. Again, at about this time, other investigative assistants were arriving.
Q Would you relate to the jury who they were?
A Mr. Connolly had arrived prior to 4:30; Mr. Squires, of course, the second photographer to arrive, came about 4:30 or so -- 4:30 or 4:40; and between there and 5:00 Mr. Grebner arrived; Mr. Hawkins and several other investigators from the office -- Mr. Black, I believe; Mr. Orr --

MR. SEGAL: (Interposing) I am sorry; I really must ask the witness to speak up.

THE COURT: You have to raise your volume a little, Mr. Ivory.

THE WITNESS: I did not see personally all the investigative assistants that arrived. They were being met at the door by either Mr. Grebner or somebody else from the office, and being dispatched from there to take up other aspects of the investigation, either at the office setting up the command post, or doing some neighborhood checks. I did not personally see all the investigative assistants that arrived.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q After Dr. Neal left the apartment and after these individuals arrived, what, if anything, did you do?
A We saw that there was too many investigators there to work at the house. That is why they were dispatched further. In the house, myself, Mr. Connolly, and Mr. Shaw began a further processing of the crime scene, sketching of the crime scene, collecting of fragile evidence. It was at about this time that it was determined that the scope of the investigation was going to call for a forensic team from the laboratory to come up and assist us on the scene. This was discussed, I believe, by Mr. Shaw and Mr. Grebner. Mr. Grebner made arrangements for the laboratory team to fly up, and in the interim we did collect some of the fragile evidence that was in the house. Excuse me. At about first light also I would cause a search to be made outside of the quarters and at that point during the search that there were some weapons found at the rear door, by the rear door of the utility room -- outside.
Q Who did you ask to conduct that search?
A Mr. Shaw -- Mr. Shaw and perhaps somebody from the MPI. I don't recall, but I know Mr. Shaw was in charge of that search.
Q What, if anything, did you request Mr. Shaw to do inside the house?
A To more or less take charge of the processing of the master bedroom, Kimberly's bedroom, and the search for evidence and the collection of evidence.
Q What, if anything, did you ask Mr. Connolly, to do?
A He -- I asked him to take charge of the sketching and the searching for and collection of any fragile evidence within the north bedroom or the bedroom of Kristen MacDonald. He also made other cursory observations of the entire house.
Q Now, Friday afternoon, Mr. Ivory, you testified with respect to the various closets in the MacDonald apartment. Did you have occasion to view the hall closet near the hall bathroom?
A Yes, sir. I did.
Q Were the doors to that closet open or closed?
A The sliding door nearest to the main hallway was open.
Q What, if anything, did you see in that closet?
A Well, there were items of linen, towels, washcloths, and a large assortment of medical equipment -- syringes, medicines -- just general medical equipment was stored in there -- professional medical equipment, not first aid equipment.
Q You spoke of Mr. Grebner coming to the MacDonald apartment. What, sir, if anything, did Mr. Grebner do in your presence?
A When he arrived, I gave him a briefing of what I had found and what I had been told to that point. I escorted him through the house, showed him each of the bedrooms, each of the bodies, what we had found to that point. During the walk through the house, Mr. Grebner observed, as we all did, the blood stains on the floor, the footprints. He took a magic marker, a felt tip ink marker, and circled some of the blood stains on the floor. He said he was doing that to draw attention to them so that people walking through the scene would be able to avoid them and not step on them.
Q In which rooms, if you know, sir, did that take place?
A He did that in Kristen's bedroom and in the hallway, the main hallway.
Q Is that all the rooms that you can recall he did that in?
A At present, yes, sir.
Q At what time did the bodies of Colette, Kristen and Kimberly leave the MacDonald apartment?
A They were removed by a medical team at 8:00 o'clock in the morning.
Q Who was moved first?
A As I recall, the children were moved first. They were placed on a litter or stretcher by ambulance attendants, removed, placed in an ambulance, and then the body of Colette MacDonald was removed and placed in an ambulance.
Q Who was present of the investigative team, if anyone, when those bodies were removed?
A I was present, Mr. Shaw was present, and Mr. Connolly was also present.
Q Were Kimberly and Kristen placed on one stretcher or two?
A One stretcher, one being on the top end of the stretcher and the other on the lower part of the stretcher.
Q After they were removed, then Colette was removed. Is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Who was present when she was removed from the master bedroom?
A Mr. Shaw and myself.
Q Prior to her being removed, what, if anything, did you do?
A Mr. Shaw and I -- well, in the process of collecting the fragile evidence that was within the house caused the blue pajama shirt that was on her chest and the white bathmat which was on her abdomen -- they were collected and placed in plastic bags.

(Pause)

Q Who collected them?
A Mr. Shaw and myself, acting as a team.
Q How did you pick them up?
A In the equipment that I brought with me when I first arrived at the house, there were some tongs or tweezers used for that purpose of picking up evidence. I used them to pick up first, I believe, the pajama shirt was picked up, I believe. I used one set of tweezers to take the sleeve that was sort of trailing off the body onto the floor and put that atop the rest of it, picked it up with tweezers. Mr. Shaw was holding a plastic bag, a large plastic bag, slid the bag underneath the pajama shirt, and then dropped it in. The same method was used in collecting the bathmat.
Q Now, prior to the removal of Colette, what other pieces of fragile evidence as you have described them, if any, did you collect?
A The pocket of that blue pajama shirt which was laying just at her foot on the upturned corner of that multi-colored throw rug. That was collected and also put in a plastic bag.
Q It was collected in the same manner as you did the others?
A In the same manner. Yes, sir.

MR. BLACKBURN: Let me have this marked as Government Exhibit 102. Excuse me just a second. Excuse me -- 101.

(Government Exhibit 101 was marked for identification.)

MR. BLACKBURN: May I approach the witness, your Honor?

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me show you what has been marked as Government Exhibit 101 and ask if you can identify it, sir.
A Yes, sir. I can.
Q What is it?
A This is the blue pajama shirt that was found on the body of Colette MacDonald -- on her chest area of Colette MacDonald.
Q What is its general appearance and condition relative to the time you first saw it, sir?
A There are some holes that are cut in it by laboratory personnel for the examination of blood typing, etc. Other than that, it appears to be in the identical condition as when I picked it up. There are some laboratory markings also on it by some of the laboratory technicians, but the item itself is as it was found that morning.

MR. BLACKBURN: I hand you what is marked Government Exhibit 314.

(Government Exhibit 314 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked as Government Exhibit 314 and ask, sir, if you can identify that?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A This is what we call the white bathmat, or the Hilton bathmat, marked with the word "Hilton" here, that was found lying across the abdomen of the body of Colette MacDonald.
Q What relationship, sir, and general characteristics and appearances is that bathmat, as you have described it, to the condition in which you first saw it?
A With the exception of markings made by the laboratory personnel when they examined it, and the initials and dates placed on it by myself and Mr. Shaw, as was done on the pajama shirt, it is in the same condition as when I first saw it.

MR. BLACKBURN: Let me have this marked as 102.

(Government Exhibit 102 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 102. Let's just leave it in there and see if you can identify it in there?
A May I open the bag?
Q Yes, go ahead.
A Yes, sir; I can identify this.
Q What is that?
A This is the pocket of the blue pajama shirt, which was found on the multi-colored throw rug at the foot of the body of Colette MacDonald.

MR. SEGAL: I could not hear where he found it, Your Honor. I do not mean to interrupt, but I really cannot hear this witness because he drops his voice off consistently after the first few words.

THE COURT: Repeat that answer for him, please.

THE WITNESS: It is the pocket of the blue pajama shirt which was found in the corner of the multi-colored throw rug at the foot of the body of Colette MacDonald.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q What relationships in general appearance and characteristics is that, what you have described as a blue pocket, as to the time when you first saw it?
A Sir, it has portions cut from it again, by laboratory personnel in their examination. Other than that, it remains in the same condition. Of course, it has markings again of my initials and date, and also the markings of other laboratory examining personnel.
Q Mr. Ivory, I believe you have already testified that you were present when Colette was removed, is that correct?
A Yes, sir; I was.
Q When she was, in fact, removed from the master bedroom, what, if anything, did you observe?
A I was closely observing what the medical personnel were doing with the body. In fact, I was in a low position myself watching them lift the body from the floor to the ambulance litter, and as they did, I was towards the head area of the body. When the body was lifted, I noticed in a blood clot right directly under the head of Colette MacDonald, something sticking from it, and after they removed the body, I went directly to that, and looked to see what it was. I saw it was what appeared to be a dark thread sticking out of the blood clot.
Q Was it a long or a short thread?
A It was a relatively short thread.
Q How many people, if you can recall, removed Colette from that master bedroom?
A Two.
Q Where were they positioned when they picked her up?
A There was one at the feet, or at the lower extremities, and there was one that lifted the body from the shoulder area from standing above the head region, gripping under and grabbing the shoulders and up onto the stretcher.
Q What kind of stretcher was it, if you know?
A The stretcher that was used to remove the bodies of the children was a canvas-type field stretcher. The one they used to remove the body of Colette was the regular stretcher with wheels that you would find in an ambulance or in the emergency room.
Q Where was this stretcher that removed Colette located in the master bedroom?
A Between the body and the master bed.
Q Now where, precisely, when they picked Colette up, were you located and how far from her body were you?
A I was no more than two feet and I was in an area which was above the end of the stretcher and just about -- could I demonstrate to you, perhaps, on the model or a photograph?
Q Yes, come down, if you would?
A The stretcher was in a position about like this right in there, and I was at a position right here.
Q Now, after Colette was removed from the master bedroom, what, if anything, did you do next?
A After the body was removed?
Q Yes, sir.
A I then went back and looked at that thread, and then for the -- I should say before the bodies were removed they were all outlined in the position where they lay: with Mr. Shaw outlining the body of Kimberly MacDonald in her bed, Mr. Connolly outlining the body of Kristen MacDonald in her bed, and Mr. Connolly and I together marking on the shag carpet -- again using a felt tip ink marker -- the position of the body of Colette MacDonald.
So, after the bodies had been removed, I went back and I looked at the puddle or clot of blood that was in the head area, and I saw that thread; and then I continued to look down through the rest of the body outline -- within the body outline, where the position -- where the body had been resting, and saw numerous other small dark threads laying (sic) -- I don't want to say in a profusion -- but a large number of them laying (sic) within the body outline.
I continued to look around the general area of the body outline and saw that there were threads both outside and inside the body outline, scattered throughout the general area of the body and the room itself.
Q Who else was in the master bedroom with you at this time, if anyone?
A Mr. Shaw.
Q What was he doing?
A He was making the same observations as I was, as I called his attention to the thread as I first observed it.

MR. BLACKBURN: May I have this marked as Government Exhibit 1058.

(Government Exhibit No. 1058 was marked for identification.)

BY MR BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked as Government's Exhibit 1058. Let me ask you, sir, if that exhibit generally depicts the manner in which Colette MacDonald was lying in the master bedroom?
A Yes, that generally depicts the position of the body.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, we would move that this exhibit be moved into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibit No. 1058 was received in evidence.)

(Counsel confer.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I wish to have marked for identification Government Exhibits 21, 22, 75, 23, 25, 26, 24, 24(b) --

THE COURT: (Interposing) I'm sorry, (b)?

MR. BLACKBURN: (b); 27, 28, 38, 59, 60, 61, 62, and 63.

(Government Exhibits 21, 22, 75, 23, 25, 26, 24, 24(b), 27, 28, 38, 59, 60, 61, 62, and 63 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, I hand you what has been marked as Government exhibits, which I have just previously enumerated and ask you if you can look at them, please? (Witness complies.)
A Yes, sir.
Q Can you identify those?
A Yes, sir, I can.
Q What are they in general, sir?
A These are called photographs exposed by Mr. Squires at the house at 544 Castle Drive, the morning of 17 February 1970.
Q What relationship, sir, are those photographs to the way in which you saw the MacDonald apartment when you first arrived there?
A Sir, they depict the house at 544 Castle Drive, the MacDonald residence, as it was when I arrived there.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would move that these photographs be admitted into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits Nos. 21, 22, 75, 23, 25, 26, 24, 24(b), 27, 28, 38, 59, 60, 61, 62, and 63 were received in evidence.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would have marked the Government Exhibits Nos. 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, and 44.

(Government Exhibit Nos. 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, and 44 marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has just been marked the Government Exhibits which I enumerated, and ask you to look at them and see if you can identify those.
A Yes, sir, I can identify them.
Q Generally, sir, what are they?
A They are photographs exposed by Mr. Squires on the morning of 17 February 1970, and show the master bedroom and the body of Colette MacDonald.
Q What relationship, sir, are those photographs to that area of the master bedroom and the body of Colette MacDonald as you saw that room and her when you first went to Castle Drive?
A Sir, these photographs depict that room and the body of Colette MacDonald as I first saw it that morning.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would move that these photographs be moved into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits Nos. 39, 40, 41, 42, and 44 were received in evidence.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would have this marked as Government Exhibit No. 70.

(Government Exhibit No. 70 marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked as Government Exhibit No. 70, and ask if you can identify that?
A Yes, sir, I can.
Q What is it?
A It is a photograph, again exposed by Mr. Squires the morning of 17 February 1970, which shows the body of Kristen MacDonald in the position it was placed after it had been moved by Dr. Neal.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would move that this Exhibit also be admitted into evidence.

(Government Exhibit No. 70 received in evidence.)

THE COURT: Very well.

MR. BLACKBURN: I have some more things to show the defense, Your Honor.

(Pause.)

THE COURT: Have you gentlemen seen these photographs before today?

MR. SEGAL: Yes, Your Honor, but the Government has changed numbering systems so many times we were not able to follow. which ones they are. We will now have to go through the different systems and find out what they are showing.

MR. BLACKBURN: Let me have marked Government Exhibits 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, and 76.

(Government Exhibits Nos. 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, and 76 marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you, Mr. Ivory, these items previously marked and ask if you can look at them and whether or not you can identify them?
A Yes, sir, I can.
Q What are they generally?
A They are additional photographs exposed by Mr. Squires at 544 Castle Drive on the morning of 17 February 1970, that show the master bedroom, the body of Colette MacDonald, the utility room or part of the utility room, and the sink in the master bath of that house.
Q What relationships are those photographs to those areas of the MacDonald apartment when you first saw it on February 17?
A Sir, with the exception of the photograph of the utility room, the other photographs depict the house exactly as I saw it when I arrived. The difference in the photograph in the utility room is that when I arrived the outer door was open, and there was a military policeman standing in the doorway.
Q How is the door in that photograph?
A The door in this photograph is closed, and the military policeman is not there.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I will move these into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits Nos. 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, and 76 were received in evidence.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Let me have marked for identification Government Exhibits 64, 65 and 74.

(Government Exhibits 64, 65 and 74 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you these exhibits previously marked for identification, and ask you if you can identify them?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What are they?
A Photos of 544 Castle Drive, and specifically the floor of the north bedroom, or the bedroom of Kristen MacDonald, exposed by Mr. Squires on the morning of 17 February 1970, and show the footprints in blood leading from the bedroom into the hall, or the master hall in the house.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I move these into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits 64, 65 and 74 were received in evidence.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, let me have marked Government Exhibits Number 53, 54, 55, 56, 57 and 58.

(Government Exhibits 53, 54, 55, 56, 57 and 58 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you these exhibits that have just been marked for identification, and ask if you can identify those, please, sir?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q Generally, sir, what are they?
A These are photos exposed by Mr. Squires of the south bedroom, or the bedroom of Kimberly MacDonald. They show that bedroom and the body of Kimberly MacDonald as it was on the morning of 17 February 1970 when I arrived at the house.

MR. BLACKBURN: Thank you, sir. Your Honor, I move these be moved into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits 53, 54, 55, 56, 57 and 58 were received in evidence.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Let me have marked Government Exhibits 30 and 33.

(Government Exhibits 30 and 33 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what have been marked for identification as Government Exhibits Number 30 and 33, and ask you if you can identify those, sir?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What are they?
A These are photos made of the kitchen of the house at 544 Castle Drive, and show the kitchen floor and the general area in front of the sink in the kitchen, and blood stains on the floor.
Q What relationship, sir, are those photographs to that area of the kitchen when you first arrived at Castle Drive?
A The kitchen is in these photographs as I first observed it that morning.

MR. BLACKBURN: Thank you. Your Honor, I move for these two photographs to be moved into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits 30 and 33 were received in evidence.)

MR. BLACKBURN: If you would mark for identification Exhibits Number 32, 31 and 35.

(Government Exhibits 32, 31 and 35 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you these exhibits just marked for identification, and ask if you can identify them, please, sir?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What are they?
A These are photos exposed in the kitchen of 544 Castle Drive on the morning of 17 February 1970, and show the area and the counter of the sink in the kitchen, and the wall and part of the doorway leading into the dining area with the telephone on the wall.
Q What relationship, sir, are those photographs to that area of Castle Drive when you first saw it?
A Sir, these items in the photographs depict the room as I first saw it that morning.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would move these into evidence also.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits 32, 31 and 35 were received in evidence.)

MR. BLACKBURN: We would mark, Your Honor, Government Exhibits Number 71, 77, 78, 73 and 72.

(Government Exhibits 71, 77, 78, 73 and 72 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Lot me hand you, Mr. Ivory, these photographs, and ask, sir, if you can identify them?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q Generally, sir, what are they?
A These are photos, again exposed on the morning of 17 February 1970, in the house at 544 Castle Drive, the MacDonald residence, and show the floor of the master bedroom, the bed of Kimberly MacDonald, and the bed of Kristen MacDonald, after the bodies had been removed by the medical personnel.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, we would move these into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits 71, 77, 78, 73 and 72 were received in evidence.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, at this time, rather than passing these photographs to the jury, we have prepared a selected number of slides that we would seek to publish to the jury, and ask Mr. Ivory to come with his pointer down, so he could point out to the jury all at one time what is in those photographs.

MR. SEGAL: May I inquire, Your Honor, whether all the photographs are available on slides, so that we may examine them later on?

MR. BLACKBURN: No, sir; Your Honor, all the photographs are not available on slides. Of course, they can be published to the jury in the other way. The vast majority of what I have just introduced are.

THE COURT: All right, sir.

MR. BLACKBURN: I wonder, sir, if we could dim those lights. Mr. Ivory, if you would -- I might say, sir, for the record, that we tested this once before; and it is very difficult to see the photographs with those lights on. But I think there is still enough light in the courtroom with those off.

THE COURT: Let's turn off one set and see how that does. How is that?

MR. BLACKBURN: That is fine; if you will give me just one moment, please.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, the power's off.

THE COURT: This is in line with our energy conservation procedure -- the Presidential Order.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q This is a slide, Your Honor, that is the equivalent of Government Exhibit No. 21. Mr. Ivory, if you would, sir, with the pointer, tell the court and the jury what is in that photograph?
A This is a photograph of the living room of the quarters at 544 Castle Drive -- the MacDonald residence -- taken from the front door, directly in, and showing the television set, and one of the speakers, and a part of the stereo unit that was in that room.
Q Your Honor, this is a slide that represents Government Exhibit No. 22. Mr. Ivory, what is in that photograph, sir?
A This is a continuation of coverage of the living room. It shows the entire stereo unit with speakers and a portion of the dining room area in the house at 544 Castle Drive.
Q This next slide, sir, is the equivalent of Government Exhibit No. 75. What, sir, is in that photograph?
A Another photograph of the living room of the MacDonald residence, taken from the area generally around the desk and television set, and shows the couch, part of the partially overturned coffee table, clothing laying on the stairs leading into the hallway, and the hallway into the master bedroom, and a partial view of the body of Colette MacDonald.
Q What is that on the sofa, if you know, sir?
A This is -- what would you call it -- an afghan.
Q This next slide is identical to Government Exhibit 23. What is in this slide, sir?

MR. SEGAL: Could you just wait a minute, Your Honor? We can't keep up with the changes in the Government's order. We just have to have a moment so we can find out where we are, all right?

(Pause.)

MR. SEGAL: Thank you very much.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, what is in this photograph, please, sir?
A Sir, another photograph of the living room of the MacDonald residence, showing the couch, end table with lamp, and again, a part of the coffee table laying on its edge, and a rocking chair.
Q This next slide would be Government Exhibit No. 25. Mr. Ivory, what is in that slide, sir?
A This is a photo of the floor and the rug area and the coffee table, again, in the living room of the MacDonald residence. It shows the coffee table laying on its edge; a pair of slippers laying across this leg of the table. This is a box containing a child's game -- punch-out or paper doll game -- something to that effect. You can see the letter "E-s." This is the magazine, Esquire magazine. These are other miscellaneous magazines and newspapers that were laying under the edge of the coffee table.
A bottle of glue, probably to go with that punch-out game.
Q This next slide would be Government Exhibit No. 26. What, sir, is in this slide or photograph?
A This is a more distant shot of the coffee table as I just described it. It shows additionally the relationship between the coffee table and the couch, the rocking chair, and other items on the floor -- the flower pot -- generally depicting that area of the living room of the MacDonald residence.
Q This next slide would be the equivalent of Government Exhibit No. 24. What, sir, is in this slide or photograph?
A This slide is a photograph of the dining area of the MacDonald residence, showing generally the placement of the furniture as it was when I arrived at the house.
Q What is that, if you know, sir, on the buffet?
A On the buffet are greeting cards. I believe they are Valentine cards, a lamp, some flowers -- I believe that were plastic.
Q This next slide would be the equivalent of Government Exhibit 24(b). What, sir, is in this photograph or slide?
A Sir, this slide shows the view from the living room area of the MacDonald residence down the hallway, and into the master bedroom, and shows a partial view of the body of Colette MacDonald; the doorway to the bedroom of Kristen MacDonald; that to that of Kimberly MacDonald. This is the small hallway that leads into the master bath.
This is a part of those items of clothing that were on the stairs leading from the living room into the hallway.
Q What else, if anything, is in that hallway near that clothing?
A Up towards this clothing here, I believe there was a child's sneaker and there was the head of a child's -- the small head of a child's -- doll.
Q Can you see that anywhere in the photograph?
A I don't believe you can see it. It perhaps may be out of focus, but it was generally in this area right over here.
Q This next slide will be Exhibit No. 27. What, sir, does this photograph or slide represent?
A This is a photo or a slide of the bedroom of Kristen MacDonald. It shows the throw rug, the bed, and the position of the body, and other items as I first saw it that morning.
Q What, if anything, is on the floor by the bed area, sir?
A These are a child's stuffed dolls, a large stuffed dog, this is a small shirt for doll's clothing -- a doll's shirt -- and a spring rocking horse.
Q This next slide would represent Government Exhibit Number 28. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A Here is a closer view of the body of Kristen MacDonald. It shows the body as it was when I arrived. There's a baby bottle positioned here in the mouth; the condition of the bedding, as I found it that morning.
Q Do you know, sir, what this is right here?
A Yes, sir, this is the upper sheet -- a large blood stain on the upper sheet, just under the blanket and the bedspread -- an upper sheet, top sheet, as opposed to the bottom sheet.

MR. BLACKBURN: Excuse me just one moment.

(Pause.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q This slide represents Government Exhibit Number 38. Mr. Ivory, what does this slide or photograph represent?
A This is another view taken generally from the door area by the hallway into the bedroom of Kristen MacDonald. It again shows the position of the body as it was first found. The stuffed animals, dolls' clothing, rocking chair, and other children's toys, and whatnot on the floor.
Q This next slide would represent Government Exhibit Number 59. What, sir, does this photograph represent?
A Another view of the bed in which the body of Kristen MacDonald was found, showing the lower portion of the bed, the footboard, folded bedspread, and the green bedspread which was atop of the body; the blood stain along the side of the bed, and the stuffed -- the dolls.
Q The next slide represents Government Exhibit Number 60. What, sir, does this photograph represent?
A The photograph of the floor of the bedroom of Kristen MacDonald. It shows a bloody smear and another one of the bloody footprints that was (sic) leading from the area of the body of Kristen MacDonald outwards to the hallway.
Q The next slide represents Government Exhibit Number 61. What, sir, if you can tell, does this slide or photograph represent?
A This is another -- or a second -- of the bloody footprints leading from the bedroom of Kristen MacDonald, from the area of the body outwards; and this is one closest to the hallway. You can see this is one of the lines that was (sic) drawn by Mr. Grebner with that felt-tip pen when he was outlining the blood stains.
Q The next slide represents Government Exhibit Number 62. What, sir, does this photograph represent?
A Sir, this is another view of that last footprint, the footprint closest to the hallway door, with the tape measure put in there for a size reference.
Q The next slide will be Government Exhibit Number 63. What, sir, does this photograph represent?
A This represents a photo taken from the hallway into the master bedroom, the east bedroom, and it shows the body of Colette MacDonald and the furnishings near her body -- the green chair and night stand.
Q What does it show on the body, sir?
A This dark item trailing off on to the shag carpet is the blue pajama shirt on the table. This white item here on the lower region of the body, across the abdomen of the body, is the Hilton bathmat on the table; and this blue object right here on this upturned corner of this throw rug by the foot is the pocket there on the table of a blue pajama shirt.
Q This next slide represents Government Exhibit Number 64. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A It is another view in the master bedroom of the body of Colette MacDonald. It shows again part of the sleeve of the blue pajama shirt, the Hilton bathmat, the leg area of the body of Colette MacDonald, and the bed and sheets of the bed -- the master bed.
Q The next slide represents Government Exhibit Number 65. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A Yet another view of the body of Colette MacDonald, perhaps more clearly showing the position of the blue pajama shirt and the Hilton bathmat, the corner of the master bed, the upturned linen on the bed. The object here partly under the dresser was the knife with a curved blade with the inscription "Geneva Forge" stamped on the blade.
Q This next slide would represent Government Exhibit Number 74. What, sir, does this photograph or slide represent?
A Another view of the body of Colette MacDonald and the master bedroom, perhaps more clearly showing the relationship of the knife to the dresser, the telephone with the receiver off the hook -- the receiver, of course, can't be seen; it is down along the side of the dresser -- the green vinyl-covered chair, again the body, and the positions of the bathmat and the pajama shirt on the body, and the corner of the bed.
Q This next slide would represent Government Exhibit Number 39. What, sir, does this slide or photograph show?
A Another close view of the body of Colette MacDonald showing the position of the body, the bloodstained upper shirt, the blue pajama shirt -- again perhaps a good view of that position, the position of the right hand of the body, the bathmat, the chair. It shows blood stains along the baseboard and the lower part of the wall here. This item here is a small piece of bloodstained latex. Generally, that is it.
Q The next slide would be Government Exhibit Number 40. What, sir, does this photograph or slide represent?
A It is a view of the body of Colette MacDonald, looking in a downward direction on to it, again showing the position of the blue pajama shirt and the positions of the arms and a general view of the head area of the body.
Q This next slide represents Government Exhibit Number 41. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A This is a photograph of the body of Kristen MacDonald after it had been moved by Dr. Neal. The arm had previously been laying (sic) on top of the sheet here. After he moved the body, it was placed underneath the bedding.
Q This next slide would represent Government Exhibit Number 42. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A Another view of the master bedroom, the body of Colette MacDonald, the night stand. There are some yarns that she probably used to tie her hair, a lamp with a tilted lampshade, blood stains on the wall; and I don't know if it can be seen with this lighting but right here is (sic) the letters "p-i-g" written in that manner in blood.
It shows the bed pillow and absence of this one pillow here.
Q This next slide will represent Government Exhibit Number 42.

MR. SEGAL: I cannot hear you, Mr. Blackburn.

MR. BLACKBURN: Number 42. I believe that's right -- 43. I am sorry. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A It is a closer view of the writing on the headboard of the word "Pig" written in blood. It again shows the absence of a pillow which was taken to the hospital with Dr. MacDonald when he was removed by the medical team.
Q This next slide will represent Government Exhibit Number 44. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A A closer view of the chair, part of the body of Colette MacDonald in the master bedroom, another view of the corner of the dresser, the knife, the telephone.
Q This next slide will represent Government Exhibit Number 70. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A It represents the dresser in the master bedroom, items -- obviously feminine articles -- perfume, hair spray. There is a fabric-covered jewelry box, a lamp, telephone, and a plant, a hairbrush, sunglasses here.
Q This next slide represents Government Exhibit Number 45. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A This is a closer view of the knife with the stamp "Geneva Forge" on the blade. This discoloration is a marking on the carpet with felt tip magic marker -- the knife found on the floor of the master bedroom in the MacDonald residence.
Q This next slide represents Government Exhibit 46. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A This is the sink in the master bathroom. There is a small stepladder-type of thing in front of the sink or under the sink. It shows drops of blood and a Kleenex in the sink.
Q The next slide will represent Government Exhibit Number 47. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A This is a view from the hallway -- generally from the area of the master bathroom -- looking in through -- across the hall into the bedroom of Kimberly MacDonald. It shows the bookcase of children's games and books, a child's bank.
Q This next slide will represent Government Exhibit Number 48. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A This represents another view in general from the foot area of the bed in the bedroom of Kimberly MacDonald. It shows the small bookcase which was filled with children's articles, a lamp, the bed, and a partial view of the body of Kimberly MacDonald.
Q The next slide will represent Government Exhibit Number 49.

MR. SEGAL: I think these are out of sequence here.

(Counsel confer.)

THE COURT: It is a time for our morning recess. Do you want a few minutes?

MR. BLACKBURN: Yes.

THE COURT: All right. Members of the jury, we will take our morning recess now and we will come back at 11:45. Don't talk about the case.

(The proceeding was recessed at 11:27 a.m., to reconvene at 11:45 a.m., this same day.)


F U R T H E R P R O C E E D I N G S 11:45 a.m.

(The following proceedings were held in the presence of the jury and alternates.)

THE COURT: All right; douse the lights again.

(Whereupon, WILLIAM F. IVORY, the witness on the stand at the time of recess, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:)


D I R E C T E X A M I N A T I O N 11:46 a.m. (resumed)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q This next slide would represent Government Exhibit Number 55. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A This is another view of the bed of Kimberly MacDonald, again exposed from the area around the door to the hallway of the bedroom. It shows the general condition of the covers, and you can just barely see the tip of the head of Kimberly MacDonald as she lay in the bed. This is a phonograph and a child's record.
Q Okay; this next slide would represent Government Exhibit Number 56. What, sir, does that slide or photograph represent?
A It is a photograph taken from the corner of the bed -- the footboard of the bed -- and it shows the condition of the body of Kimberly MacDonald, the position of her hair, the bloodstains on it there, the bedding being tucked underneath the body, and the position of the hand.
Q This next slide would represent Government Exhibit Number 57. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A It is a view of the body of Kimberly MacDonald, as taken from the side of the bed closest to the north wall of the bedroom, again shows the general position of the body and the injuries to the head region, the position of the arm, the condition of the bedding and the pillows.
Q This next slide would represent Government Exhibit 58. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A Another view of the body of Kimberly MacDonald, again showing the injured area, the bloodied area, the position of the hand, bloodstains on the hand up to a certain point there, and again the position of the arm and bedding.
Q This next slide would represent Government Exhibit Number 30. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A It is a slide taken from the dining area of the house into the kitchen, showing the sink, items on top of the counter in the sink, and this area here, which was circled by myself, showing drops of blood on the floor of the kitchen.
Q This next slide would represent Government Exhibit Number 33. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A It is a closer view of those areas circled by me on the tile floor of the kitchen, showing the drops -- not splatters or smears -- but drops of blood on the floor.
Q This next slide would represent Government Exhibit Number 32. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A This shows the items -- there, the washed dishes -- stove, and other items on the counter of the sink in the kitchen.
Q This next slide would represent Government Exhibit Number 31. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A Another in the photo coverage of the kitchen, showing the items on the right-hand side of the counter of the sink -- a blender and other normal kitchen items.
Q This next slide represents Government Exhibit Number 35. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A This is the wall of the kitchen by the doorway leading into the dining area. It shows a bulletin board that was in the kitchen posted with recipes and whatnot, phone numbers. It shows the wall telephone with the receiver and cord hanging down.
Q This next slide represents Government Exhibit Number 71. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A This is a photograph of the floor and the shag carpet in the master bedroom. A stuffed toy, a hairbrush, and -- I can't describe it too much, because it is up here, but it shows generally the condition of the room after the removal of the body of Colette MacDonald. It was within this area right here that I first made an observation of the threads when the body was lifted up.
Q This next slide represents Government Exhibit Number 77. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A Sir, this is a close view of the shag carpet on the floor of the master bedroom. It shows the blood stain which was directly under the head region of the body. You can see this blue discoloration around here. That is the marking with the felt-tip ink marker. As you can imagine, it is quite difficult to mark on a shag carpet here with a marker, so it is not a steady line; but I am sure you can see the outline here.
This is a splinter -- a wooden splinter -- which we found just below the head of the body; and this is one of the blue threads that I was talking about -- another here and here. It is rather difficult with the lighting and whatnot to see it. The tape measure is inserted by ourselves for size reference.
Q This next slide would be Government Exhibit Number 78. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A Sir, this is another photograph, or a closer view of the shag carpet of the master bedroom, showing the blood stains that were in the vicinity of the body, the little piece of splinter, the thread, and again the tape measure put in for size reference.
Q This next slide represents Government Exhibit Number 73. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A This represents the bed of Kimberly MacDonald after the removal of the body by medical personnel, the outline of the body having been drawn again with felt-tip ink marker. It shows the blood stains, the wet stain there on the lower region of the body. This is a piece of knit material that was across the bedding by the body, again with the markings and initials of Mr. Shaw. My own initials were over in the corner. You can't see them over here.
Q This next slide represents Government Exhibit Number 72. What, sir, does this slide or photograph represent?
A This shows the bed of Kristen MacDonald after removal of the body by medical personnel, and the outline of the body, around the blood stains and around here, the line where the bedding was drawn up to as made by Mr. Connolly.

MR. BLACKBURN: That, sir, is the last of the slides. You may resume your seat.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, I noticed you testified earlier this morning that a laboratory team from Fort Gordon was coming; is that correct?
A Yes, sir; that is correct.
Q For what purpose were they coming, sir?
A To assist in the processing of the crime scene, as it was seen by us that it was going to be quite an involved processing of the crime scene. It was going to take some time, and that we did need the expertise of the people at the lab in collecting the evidence which they were to process.
Q When did they come, if you know, sir?
A They arrived late morning of the morning of the 17th of February.
Q Who came, if you know, sir, from Fort Gordon?
A There was a photographer, Mr. Page; Mr. Medlin from the Fingerprint Division; Mr. Turbyfill arrived from the Fingerprint Division --

MR. SEGAL: (Interposing) I can't hear what you are saying.

THE WITNESS: Mr. Turbyfill arrived also from the Fingerprint Division; a gentleman from the Chemistry Division, Mr. Chamberlain; and a Mr. Rowe arrived.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q I believe you testified earlier this morning that military police were at the front and back door; is that correct?
A Yes, sir; that is correct.
Q How long did they remain there?
A Either they or replacements remained there for a number of days.
Q What steps, if any, during this day and subsequent days, were done to seal off the apartment, sir?
A We had the military policemen physically on duty around the perimeter of the entrances to the quarters. We obtained assistance from the Post Engineers, or the post maintenance personnel, to come and install padlocks -- hasps and padlocks -- to the house. After they were installed, which I believe was the second day, we began sealing the house using these padlocks, and additionally, using railway security seals each time we exited the apartment, breaking it each time, and maintaining a log as to time and date and seal number broken.
Q After the laboratory team from Fort Gordon arrived, what, if anything, did you and they do?
A Immediately upon their arrival, they were given a briefing of what we had found to that point, and generally what assistance we required from them.
Q What did Mr. Page do, if you know, sir?
A Mr. Page, from the Photography Division, went through the house and photographed again the crime scene, but of course, after the bodies had been removed.
Q If you know, sir, what did Mr. Medlin do?
A In addition to processing parts of the house for fingerprints, he also assisted me in some searches in the living room area for evidence, in the area of the couch and the upturned coffee table. This was done so that the chemistry people could proceed through parts of the house prior to the Fingerprint Division going through to eliminate the possibility of contamination of any blood stains with fingerprint powder.
Q What did Mr. Chamberlain do, if you know, sir?
A Mr. Chamberlain, from the Chemistry Division, was going with Mr. Shaw most of the time, and collecting evidence and processing evidence which would be viewed and examined in the Chemistry Division of the laboratory.
Q What did Mr. Rowe do, if you know, sir?
A Mr. Rowe, from the Chemistry Division, assisted me personally while we worked as a team in jointly processing and collecting evidence from the kitchen and the bedroom of Kristen MacDonald.
Q What did Mr. Shaw do, if you know?
A Mr. Shaw, accompanied by Mr. Chamberlain, processed the master bedroom and the bedroom of Kimberly MacDonald for evidence, which would be processed by the Chemistry Division of the laboratory.
Q How long was the laboratory team from Fort Gordon present at Castle Drive?
A As I say, they arrived shortly before noon on the morning of the 17th and departed for Georgia by air on the 21st.
Q On the 17th, shortly after they arrived, after the briefing had taken place, what, if anything, did you do?
A I'm sorry, would you repeat that, please?
Q Yes, sir. On the morning of the 17th or early afternoon shortly after the team had arrived, and the briefing had been given, what, if anything, did you do?
A I believe it was about that time that we were giving briefings to the Provost Marshal and Mr. Grebner, the Chief of Investigation for the CID, as to what we had found to that point, and then after actual arrival and working in the house -- as I said Mr. Medlin and myself -- processed or made a search of the area immediately in front of the couch of -- not the master bedroom, excuse me -- of the living room for evidence of a struggle, blood, signs of threads from the torn pajama shirt -- which we felt should have been there -- and any other items that would be of interest or evidential value.
Q Can you approximate how long you and Mr. Medlin remained in the living room area?
A In terms of time, no. It is very difficult to say. We did a very extensive search on the floor, to the extent of being on our hands and knees. It was a short-pile carpet, not like this, but a short-pile carpet. We were down on our hands and knees actually going through the piles with our fingers.
Mr. Medlin, in fact, using -- not a microscope -- had a magnifying glass, going through the piles of carpet looking for foreign objects.
Q What foreign objects did you find?
A Very little. We found what looks like some pieces of confetti or small little items, maybe seeds or something, but nothing of any evidentiary value.

MR. SEGAL: I can't hear you.

THE WITNESS: Nothing of what we thought was any evidentiary value.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q I take it then you found no fibers or threads?
A No, sir; none at all, no blood stains, no fibers.
Q When you say no blood stains and no fibers, what area are you covering in that description, sir?
A I am covering the living room from the mid part in the living room -- the middle of the living room -- to the east wall, and from the outer wall right into the dining room area. Again, sir, if I could demonstrate.
Q Yes, sir; if you would come down?
A May I move it?
Q Yes.
A The area, as I say, from about midpoint in the living room to this wall, and from this wall out to the dining area and a general area right around the doorway into the hallway. We concentrated, perhaps, most of our efforts in this area between the couch and the coffee table and the rocking chair -- generally, this area right here.
Q How many splinters did you find in the living room?
A None, sir.
Q You may resume your seat. With respect to the master bedroom, did you participate in a similar search in the master bedroom through the carpet?
A Yes, sir; I did.
Q What, if anything, did you find?
A Well, as I stated earlier, around the head area of the body, we searched and found there were short blue, dark blue threads. Again, throughout the area where the body had been laying.
Q If you would, sir, when you are speaking as to what you did or did not find, if you would use the pointer and point at that Government's Exhibit?
A Yes, sir. Within the body outline where the body had been laying, in the head area, where I initially found that dark blue thread, we proceeded down the body outline. We found additional threads down around this area under where the body had been. There was a large splinter, perhaps an inch and a half or two inches long up over the head area, as was depicted in the photograph.
There was a hairbrush in here by the hand. This is approximately where that green chair would have been -- a stuffed animal under there. In this area, also, we found some dark blue threads, short threads, and perhaps right around this area, a small piece -- maybe the size of a quarter -- of a piece of latex, piece of, perhaps, a rubber glove, which was bloodstained. And, again, down through this area, a general profusion, perhaps not as thick as around this area, but a profusion of those dark blue threads. The pocket, of course, was found here.
Q You may resume your seat. Besides the general body outline of Colette MacDonald, what other area in the master bedroom, if any, did you process, sir?
A The area between the green chair and the dresser, also looking for items. Again, we found a few little threads and some little pieces of grass there up by the headboard of the bed where the word "pig" was written. Later on, in processing around the bed to see what items of evidence may have been dropped down behind the headboard of the bed, we additionally found a dark blue thread down behind the headboard, just at the area where the word -- the word "pig" -- was written -- on the headboard, between the headboard and the wall is what I am trying to describe.
Perhaps I have neglected to mention, there was a pile of bedding -- a bedspread and a sheet -- which I think I showed you in that photograph the other day, just inside the door of the bedroom. There was a bedspread and a sheet and we also processed that, and in looking through that again, after the bodies had been removed, I looked at it, as it was bloodstained, and as I started to open it, I saw some threads and other items in it, and as I opened it further, I saw what appeared to me to be a whole finger section of a clear latex glove, bloodstained.
I saw that and I knew right then that if I found this so far, there is probably something else in that bundle of bedding that will be of interest to us, and rather than open it there and chance losing it or contaminating it, I thought it would be best opened by a trained laboratory technician, and I closed it back up and we put it in a plastic bag and waited for the arrival of the laboratory team.
Q When you say "we," who do you mean besides yourself?
A Mr. Shaw and myself.
Q Can you describe how you picked the bedding up, if you would?
A This is obviously too large to be picked up with the forceps or the tweezers that I had. But as they were in a bundle, Mr. Shaw had the bag and I lifted the bundle up and placed the items in a large, clear, plastic bag.
Q You mentioned that you saw inside the sheet what appeared to be a finger section of a rubber glove. What, if anything, did you do with that?
A That was put into a vial. We had some plastic vials we were using to collect some evidence, and I put that inside the vial and replaced it right back in with the bedding, closed it up, and put it in the plastic bag.

MR. BLACKBURN: Let me have marked for identification Government Exhibit 103.

(Government Exhibit No. 103 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you, sir, what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 103 and ask if you can identify that, sir.
A Yes, sir. I can.
Q What is it?
A This is a blue bedsheet and part of that bundle of bedding of the sheet and bedspread that I described as having been found inside the door.
Q What is its general appearance and condition now as to the relationship when you first saw it on the seventeenth of February?
A Sir, it is, of course, marked by myself and Mr. Shaw and some laboratory personnel. There are holes in it, cuttings which were made under laboratory conditions for analysis of the stains. Other than that -- other than the markings and the cuttings from the laboratory, it appears that it is the same as when I first saw it.

MR. BLACKBURN: I would like marked for identification Government Exhibit 104.

(Government Exhibit No. 104 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you, Mr. Ivory, what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit Number 104 and ask you if you can take a look at it and whether or not you can identify it.
A Yes, sir. I can.
Q What is it?
A This is the bedspread which is the other item in that pile of bedding inside the doorway of the master bedroom.
Q What is its general appearance and condition as to when you first saw it?
A Sir, it is marked by myself and Mr. Shaw, marked by laboratory personnel, and there are cuts made in it again under laboratory conditions for analysis of stains and, other than that, it appears as I first saw it. Now, let me qualify this also by saying I did not open these things entirely upon my first observation, as I stated. But generally they are in the condition that I first found them. These are the items that I saw there.

MR. BLACKBURN: Just a minute, your Honor.

(Pause.)

MR. BLACKBURN: I would like to mark for identification Government Exhibit Number 109.

(Government Exhibit No. 109 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit Number 109 and ask, sir, if you can identify it.
A Yes, sir. This is the vial into which was placed the bloody piece of clear latex that was up around the arm region of Colette MacDonald's body. This is an item that was -- part of it taken to a laboratory under laboratory conditions and placed in this small container.
Q Mr. Ivory, what individual participation by you, if any -- strike that question -- what, if anything, did you do with respect to the processing of Kimberly's bedroom?
A Kimberly's bedroom -- I made general observations. I assisted in the outlining of the sheet in relation to the edge of the bed, initialed the bottom sheet of the bed, assisted in a search of the area for evidence found up behind the pillow on the north side of the bed or the side closest to the hallway, another splinter that would appear to have blood stains on it.
Q With respect to Kristen's bed room, what, if anything, did you personally do in the processing of that room?
A As a part of the team of myself and Mr. Rowe from the Chemistry Division of the laboratory, I would process the room, collected blood stains, collected bedding, made a search of the entire room for items of evidence, collected items such as the bedding, all things which were bloodstained, blood stains from the floor, made a search of the top of the bed for foreign objects -- foreign articles -- found again another one of those dark blue threads. In general, made -- with Mr. Rowe -- processed the entire room and collected all available evidence from that room.
Q With respect to the hallway, sir, what, if anything, did you personally do with respect to processing the hallway?
A With the initial processing and observations of the hallway, the locating of the blood stains, observations of the processing by the Chemistry Division personnel, and was present while parts of the floor was taken from the hallway. Parts of the wall were taken from the hallway and also the floor and parts of the walls which were cut out from in Kristen's bedroom, which were bloodstained and sent to the laboratory for examination.
Q Would you describe, sir, if you can, the method of recording that you did with the collection of blood stains?
A Of recording?
Q Yes, sir. How that was done?
A In the kitchen, while processing -- let me generally explain how we set the procedures up for the identification of the items that we picked up. As we knew we were going to be working in one or two or more teams, I wanted to keep some order to the numbering of items we were picking up. Just went through a numerical order of one through whatever with the exceptions of the kitchen which were numbered one and also used the letter "k" to indicate "kitchen." Other numbers that followed in the north bedroom were given a number and "nb" or "nbr" to indicate that the item came from the north bedroom or the bedroom of Kristen MacDonald and other items which were either tested or collected by the laboratory people were marked again in numerical sequence all the way through the house -- through the hallways, the master bedroom, and into Kimberly's bedroom. In the kitchen, as I processed the kitchen with Mr. Rowe from the Chemistry Division of the laboratory. Again, we numbered them "1k," "2k," et cetera, with Mr. Rowe actually doing the collecting of the items and myself maintaining a handwritten log.
As we proceeded into the north bedroom, the situation was somewhat reversed, with myself collecting the items and Mr. Rowe maintaining a log of the items as they were picked up.

MR. BLACKBURN: Let me have marked for identification Government Exhibits 457 and 458.

(Government Exhibits 457 and 458 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you these Government Exhibits 457 and 458, and ask you, sir, if you can identify those?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What are they?
A These are the logs.
Q If you would, sir, refer to what each one is?
A Number 457 is the log that was written by me while Mr. Rowe and I were collecting items of evidence from the kitchen. I recognize my handwriting. 458 is that log that was maintained by Mr. Rowe as Mr. Rowe and I collected items of evidence from within the north bedroom or the bedroom of Kristen MacDonald.
Q Do you recognize the handwriting?
A Not specifically -- the handwriting, no, sir, but I recognize the list. I recognize the numbering procedures, and generally, I have seen it quite often before, and I can identify it by that.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, we would move Government Exhibits 457 and 458 into evidence.

THE COURT: They will be admitted.

(Government Exhibits 457 and 458 were received in evidence.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I have just handed some items to the defense.

(Pause.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I will mark for identification Government Exhibits Numbers 220, 221, 224, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 197, and 219.

(Government Exhibits 220, 221, 224, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 197, and 219 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, if I could, let me hand you these items just marked for identification, and ask if you can look through them and tell us what they are generally?
A Yes, sir; I can identify them.
Q Generally speaking, sir, what are they?
A These are photographs of the MacDonald residence exposed by Mr. Page from the laboratory team of the house on that morning of the 17th of February.
Q What relationship are those photographs to that scene of Castle Drive at the time later in the day of the 17th?
A This is as the crime scene appeared after the removal of the bodies on the morning of 17 February.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would move these photographs into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits 220, 221, 224, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 197, and 219 were received in evidence.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would ask leave of the Court to publish certain exhibits already in evidence to the jury at this time.

THE COURT: All right, sir.

(Exhibits passed among the jury.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, let me mark for identification Government Exhibits Numbers 459, 460, 461, 462, 463, and 464.

(Government Exhibits Nos. 459, 460, 461, 462, 463, and 464 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you these, Mr. Ivory, and ask you if you can look at them and identify them, please, sir?
A Yes, sir, I can identify them.
Q What are they?
A These are photographs taken of the processing of the crime scene and show the method in which items were marked prior to being processed by the team. It shows where items had been removed for examination in the laboratory, shows the numbering and lettering of the floorboards of the bed -- the floor of Kristen MacDonald's bedroom, and also the hallway where the bloody footprints were -- markings on the wall, the markings which in effect fixed the items by, perhaps, exhibit number, if we could call it that -- exactly where we took samples and items of evidence.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would move these photographs into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits Nos. 459, 460, 461, 462, 463, and 464 were received in evidence.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, with respect to the kitchen area, what part of that room, sir, did you personally process?
A I processed the entire room, the floor, where the drops of blood were, counter tops and the sink. I saw nothing of any interest to us. The drawers the appliances. Underneath the sink was a cupboard-type thing -- underneath the sink storage area -- and within that area I found some traces of blood, and also a stack towards the rear of the storage area under the sink a stack of -- I think about eight packages of Perry's latex surgeon's gloves.
Q Mr. Ivory, where were the blood drops that you have described located on the floor of the kitchen?
A They were directly in front of the doorway into the storage area underneath the sink.
Q I know that the jury can't see too well, but will you come to the model -- let me pull it closer -- and show us where that was?
A I don't know if you all can see down in there. Can I move this a certain way?

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, could the jury perhaps stand up so they could see it?

THE COURT: Oh, yes.

THE WITNESS: The drops of blood, as I described, were right here directly in front; and within inches of the two little wooden doors that open up into the storage area underneath the sink, at a point right there, right about where the pointer is.

MR. BLACKBURN: Can everybody see?
You may resume your seat.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, with respect to the utility room off the master bedroom, what portion of that room, sir, did you personally process?
A Processing per se, perhaps none, except for a general search of the room and found nothing of any interest to the cases we were processing in the house. There was nothing that appeared to be out of place, no bloodstains.
Q With respect to the small bathroom that was off the utility room, what if anything did you do, sir, for the purpose of processing that room?
A With the -- just to make a search of the room for anything that may be of interest to us, any potential evidence, which we found none. It was just a search. There was no collection of anything in there. There was (sic) no items found to be of interest to us.
Q Finally, sir, with respect to the main or the hall bathroom -- strike that question. With respect to the hall bathroom, what, if anything, did you do in personally processing that room?
A Conducted a search for evidence, or potential evidence to us. I made no collection in that room. The collection in there was made by Mr. Chamberlain and Mr. Shaw. However, later on in the processing of the house, after all the fragile items and items that could have possibly been contaminated -- after they had been collected or processed -- we caused the post engineers or the post maintenance people to come to the house and search the plumbing for any items of potential evidence.
Q What did that search reveal?
A Nothing of interest to us at all.
Q With respect to the hall bathroom, what if anything did you observe in that room while you were there?
A In the hall bathroom, sir?
Q Yes, sir.
A That which drew most of my attention was the sink area, and the blood stains and drops on the sink. Other items in there were -- under the sink was a kind of a stepladder -- a wicker or perhaps metal-framed stepladder -- and the items you would normally find in a family bathroom.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q With respect to the general closet area of the MacDonald apartment, what, if anything, did you do in personally processing all of the closets in the MacDonald apartment?
A Well, since we were by that bathroom, let me start with that particular closet. We made a search of that closet, again, finding items of professional medical equipment; hypodermic syringes; needles; medication; generally, a stockpile of medical equipment; but it was also the linen closet towels and whatnot in there. In the closet of the master bedroom -- in fact, just inside of the partially opened sliding door of the closet -- may I?
Q Yes, sir.
A In searching this closet in the master bedroom, this door was open. On the floor, there were some shoes on some homemade shelving. In the corner, there was a lever action .30-.30 rifle with ammunition in there. There was a chest, I believe, or a footlocker over on this part (indicating) of the closet. It had some firearms in it, I believe. This closet, again, had just clothing -- nothing of any particular interest to us except in all the closets, there were pieces of homemade shelving as storage area. In this type of house, it is kind of restricted. Quite often, the people, as Dr. MacDonald did perhaps, is make their own shelving for convenient storage. From those shelving, we took pieces of the legs of the shelving to send to the laboratory for comparison with a club that we found outside of the house which we believed at the time to be the murder weapon.
Q Excuse me, sir. Before you go on, how were the clothes hanging in the hall closet and the other closets?
A How were they hanging? Just in a normal manner as you would find in any household. There was no sign of anything being searched but just a normal closet hanging.
Q Continue, sir.
A Again, in this area here (indicating), there was a chest of drawers that were placed in there again for storage -- saving of storage space. We also searched some of the clothing there for hairs and fibers to be compared to other things we found throughout the house, but mainly, what I personally collected from the closets were those pieces of the shelving to be sent to the laboratory to compare it to the club that was found outside the rear door of the house.
Q With respect to the closet in Kimberly's bedroom --
A (Interposing) Yes, sir.
Q Did you participate in the processing of that closet?
A Yes, sir.
Q What, if anything, did you find?
A Again, the closet, again, pieces of the shelving, but that is all I recall right now that was there.
Q You may resume your seat.

MR. BLACKBURN: Let me mark for identification, Your Honor, Government Exhibits Number 465, 466, 467, 478, 474, 473, 472, 471, 470, 469, and 468.

(Government Exhibits 465, 466, 467, 478, 474, 473, 472, 471, 470, 469, and 468 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you, sir, these items previously marked for identification, and ask you if you can identify them?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What are they generally?
A These are more photographs exposed during the processing of the crime scene and depicts the location and the fixing of items of evidence that were found in the house and also shows the numerical sequence in which they were numbered.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would move these into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

MR. BLACKBURN: And ask that they be published to the jury.

THE COURT: All right.

(Government Exhibits 465, 466, 467, 478, 474, 473, 472, 471, 470, 469, and 468 were received in evidence.)

(Exhibits passed among the jury.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, during this first time that you spent in the MacDonald apartment, what evidence, if any, sir, did you find of people coming in from the outside?
A There were no signs of forced entry to the house, and within the house, the only items that I found which were indicative of someone coming from the outside were some wet spots and some grass in the hallway which I observed immediately on coming into the house.

MR. SEGAL: I can't hear your answer.

THE COURT: He said that he observed them immediately upon coming into the house -- that was the wet spots and grass in the hallway.

THE WITNESS: I inquired to Lieutenant Paulk, the duty officer who met me at the door, if he knew where they came from. He indicated to me that those were the marks brought in by himself and military policemen and that they had observed no other grass or water when they had arrived. I made a point to ask those specific questions.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, how long did your personal involvement in processing of the MacDonald apartment continue?
A Oh, Lord. We continued with the laboratory team through that week -- through the 21st. The house, to this very day, is still sealed with those railway seals. I continued going in and out of that house myself and Mr. Shaw for periods of months. I even went in there and picked up some items of evidence a year and two days, as I recall, from the day I first walked into the house.
Q What is it that you are referring to that you picked up a year and two days later?
A On the 19th of February, 1971, I removed from Kimberly's bedroom the bed slat supporting the mattress and the box spring and sent that to the laboratory to be compared again with the club that was found outside -- the bloody club found outside the back door of the house as it appeared to me to be similar in appearance.
Q Mr. Ivory, you spoke earlier in your testimony of Mr. Alexander, the photographer. Subsequent to his leaving the MacDonald apartment and becoming ill, did he ever return to the MacDonald apartment?
A Yes, sir; he did.
Q When was that?
A He was there again through that first morning, right up until perhaps the time of the removal of the bodies. I know he was around there for quite a while.
Q What did you personally observe him do when he returned?
A When he returned, after Mr. Squires had gotten there -- Mr. Squires took over as the primary photographer of the scene; but Mr. Alexander did remain and he did expose some subsequent photographs while he was there.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, let me mark for identification number 145 and 145(a).

(Government Exhibits 145 and 145(a) were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you, sir, Government Exhibit 145 and also Exhibit 145(a) and ask if you can identify what they are?
A Yes, sir; they are black and white photographs of the body of Kristen MacDonald, exposed subsequent to the examination of the body by Dr. Neal.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I move these be introduced into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits 145 and 145(a) were received in evidence.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me point you, if I can, to Government Exhibit 145(a) and ask you if you can identify, if you know, sir, what this is right here?
A That, sir, is a large blood stain which was on the floor. I can't recall the exhibit number, but it was on the floor, right directly next to the bed.
Q And let me point to this area on the same exhibit, sir, and if you can, tell us what that is right there?
A Yes, sir; that area was also bloodstained.
Q This right here, if you can; just tell what that is?
A Yes, sir; right there, there was blood stains, again, leading off that carpet; but that particular item there is a thick piece of yarn.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, at this time, I would also publish Exhibit 71 to the jury.

THE COURT: All right.

(Exhibit passed among the jury.)

THE COURT: Now, when they finish looking at that, we may go to lunch.

MR. BLACKBURN: All right; I will just do one more, sir. Your Honor, I would mark for identification Government Exhibit Number 147 and 147(a).

(Government Exhibits 147 and 147(a) were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you these items, Mr. Ivory, and ask if you can identify them, sir?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What are they?
A Black and white photographs taken from the living room into the dining room area of the MacDonald residence.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would move these into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits 147 and 147(a) were received in evidence.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, we would mark Government Exhibits 146 and 146(a).

(Government Exhibits 146 and 146(a) were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you these exhibits and ask, sir, if you can identify them?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What are they?
A Black and white photographs of the living room -- desk, there the television, and stereo unit in the living room of the MacDonald residence.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, we move these into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits 146 and 146(a) were received in evidence.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, we would mark exhibits number 151 and 151(a).

(Government Exhibits 151 and 151(a) were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you these two exhibits and ask you, sir, if you can identify them?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What are they?
A They are black and white photos of the kitchen of the MacDonald residence and show the bulletin board and the telephone wire with the receiver hanging down to the floor.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, we would move these into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits 151 and 151(a) were received in evidence)

THE COURT: Now, members of the jury, we will let you retire and then we will shortly take our recess and come back today at 2:30. Remember, we don't talk about the case. Don't read, look at, or listen to anything about it. Keep open minds about it. Have a good lunch and come back today at 2:30. The jury may retire and then we will take our recess.

(Jury exits at 12:58 p.m.)

THE COURT: All right, Mr. Coggins, you can recess us until 2:30.

(The proceeding was recessed at 12:59 p.m., to reconvene at 2:30 p.m., this same day.)


F U R T H E R P R O C E E D I N G S 2:30 p.m.

(The following proceedings were held in the presence of the jury and alternates.)

THE COURT: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Further questions?

MR. BLACKBURN: We would call Mr. Ivory back to the stand.

(Whereupon, WILLIAM F. IVORY, the witness on the stand at the time of recess, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:)


D I R E C T E X A M I N A T I O N 2:31 p.m. (resumed)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, during the week that you were participating in the processing of the crime scene, what steps, if any, were taken by you to inventory the items in the house?
A You mean, sir, the items of evidence or the items of furniture and all?
Q Both?
A Well, the items that were selected to be retained or processed as items of possible evidence were inventoried in the manner as we showed this morning, with the items from the kitchen and the north bedroom that Mr. Rowe and I took care of. And other items as they were picked up were listed in similar fashion and recorded on evidence receipts or military police receipts for property. Items of non-evidentiary value, which were left in the house, were all not inventoried, in that we knew they would not be removed from the house and the house would be sealed daily, or each time the evidence processing teams were leaving the building. So for that reason we did not inventory the entire contents of the house.

MR. BLACKBURN: I would mark this as Government Exhibit Number 141.

(Government Exhibit 141 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you, Mr. Ivory, what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit Number 141, sir, and ask if you can identify it?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A This is the bed slat, or the board that was supporting the box spring and mattress at the head portion of the bed of Kimberly MacDonald. This is the item that I retrieved from the house on the 19th of February, 1971.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would mark for identification at this time Government Exhibits Number 484, 490, 495, 509, 516, 518, 521, 531, 532, 533, 534, 551, 550, 546, and 547.

(Government Exhibits 484, 490, 495, 509, 516, 518, 521, 531, 532, 533, 534, 551, 550, 546 and 547 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you these items previously marked and ask you if you will look at them and tell us whether you can generally identify them, sir?
A (Witness examines exhibits.) Yes, sir; I can.
Q What are they?
A These are black and white photographs of the residence of the MacDonald family, exposed during the processing of the crime scene, and depicts -- again, using our numerical sequence of identifying the exhibits that we removed from the house, and other items of evidence that were removed during the processing of the crime scene.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, we would move these into evidence.

THE COURT: Very well.

(Government Exhibits Number 484, 490, 495, 509, 516, 518, 521, 531, 532, 533, 534, 551, 550, 546 and 547 were received in evidence.)

MR. BLACKBURN: We have marked for identification Government Exhibit Number 133.

(Government Exhibit 133 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 133 and ask if you can identify that, sir?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What are they?
A This is a package of latex surgeon gloves, brand name Perry, size 8, which was found by me and obtained from underneath the sink in the kitchen of the MacDonald residence. I actually took it from the house on 9 March, '70.

MR. BLACKBURN: I would mark for identification Government Exhibit 134.

(Government Exhibit 134 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you Government Exhibit 134 and ask, sir, if you can identify what it is?
A Yes, sir; these are additional packages of Perry brand latex surgeon gloves that were taken by me from under the kitchen sink in that storage area. They were taken by me from the house on the 14th of July, 1971.

MR. SEGAL: May I have the year again, please?

THE WITNESS: 14th of July, 1971.

MR. SEGAL: Thank you.

MR. BLACKBURN: I would mark 105 and 138 for identification.

(Government Exhibits 105 and 138 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you Government Exhibit 105 and ask, sir, if you can tell us what it is?
A Sir, I hesitate to open it with this tag on here.
Q Go ahead and open it.
A Have you read this warning?

MR. BLACKBURN: Wait just one minute.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Now, sir, if you can look at that and identify what it is?
A Yes, sir. This is that piece of what appeared to be a latex glove -- the finger section that I found as I was going through that bundle of bedding there in the master bedroom by the closet door.
Q Let me hand you what has also been marked as Government Exhibit 138. You may open the bag and tell us if you can, sir, what it is?
A Yes, sir. This is another portion or another little piece of latex similar to the other pieces that were picked up. It was found in the area of the dresser -- by the dresser and where that knife was found on the floor of the master bedroom by that dresser there (indicating). It was placed in this vial. I found it and it was placed in this vial by, I believe, Mr. Chamberlain and Mr. Shaw.

MR. BLACKBURN: I would mark this as Government Exhibit 271.

(Government Exhibit 271 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit Number 271. Look at it and tell us whether or not you can identify it?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A These are the pink pajama pants that were on the body of Colette MacDonald when I first observed it.
Q What is its general condition today as compared with when you first saw it, sir?
A As with some of the other exhibits that I have seen, there are cuts made in it by the laboratory personnel in analyzing the stains all over the pajamas. Other than that, they are stained and all, as I first observed them.

MR. BLACKBURN: I would mark this as Government Exhibit Number 270.

(Government Exhibit 270 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked as Government Exhibit 270, and ask whether or not you can identify it, sir?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A This is the pink pajama shirt now discolored by the blood stains that were on the upper portion of the body of Colette MacDonald when I first observed the body.
Q What is the relationship in its general appearance today as to when you first saw it?
A In general appearance with the exception of those cuts being made and marks being made by laboratory technicians, it appears the same.

MR. BLACKBURN: I would mark Exhibit Number 273.

(Government Exhibit 273 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you Government Exhibit Number 273, and ask you, sir, whether or not you can identify it?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A This is the pajama top that was on the body of Kristen MacDonald when I first observed it that morning.
Q In general characteristics, what is the relationship between it today and when you first saw it?
A Again, with the exception of those cuts and markings made by laboratory technicians, it appears to be the same.

MR. BLACKBURN: This will be Number 274.

(Government Exhibit 274 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 274, and ask you, sir, whether or not you can identify it?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A These are the bottoms or the pajama pants which were on the body of Kristen MacDonald.
Q In general appearances, sir, what is the relationship between the way it is today and the way you first saw it?
A As with the others, with the exception of laboratory markings and the cuts, the same.

MR. BLACKBURN: 275.

(Government Exhibit 275 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 275, and ask you, sir, whether or not you can identify it?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A It is the undershirt removed from the body of Kristen MacDonald.
Q In general appearances, sir, what is the relationship between the time you first saw it and today?
A Again, with the same exceptions of the laboratory markings and cuttings, it appears the same as when I first saw it after it had been removed from the body.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, could I have just one moment?

(Counsel confer.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, at this time we would move certain items into evidence -- Government Exhibit Number 141, the bed slat, Government Exhibit 274, 273, 271, 270, 275.

MR. SEGAL: If Your Honor pleases, may I suggest we defer that matter until we have had a chance to cross-examine this witness in regard to those matters.

THE COURT: Well, he is offering them now unless there is some objection to their introduction --

MR. SEGAL: (Interposing) In the absence of the opportunity to cross-examine, I will OBJECT at this time only. It is a question of timing.

THE COURT: I will let you, of course, at the proper time -- when you cross-examine -- renew your objection if you have one.

MR. SEGAL: All right, Your Honor.

(Government Exhibits Nos. 141, 274, 273, 271, 270, and 275 were received into evidence.)

MR. BLACKBURN: We would like Government Exhibit Number 139 marked for identification.

(Government Exhibit No. 139 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you Government Exhibit 139 and ask if you can identify it, sir.
A Yes, sir. I can.
Q What is it?
A This is the Esquire magazine that you saw in the photograph of the living room and the upturned coffee table. There was a child's game laying across sort of diagonally in this manner (gesturing), and you could see the first two letters "E-s" which are in the slide and the photograph. When the table was removed and the game was removed, this magazine was found and collected.

MR. BLACKBURN: Mark 140.

(Government Exhibit No. 140 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 140 and ask you whether or not you can identify it.
A Yes, sir. I can.
Q What is it?
A This is that box filled with that child's game I have just been describing which was laying on top of the Esquire magazine underneath the edge of the coffee table.

MR. BLACKBURN: Mark for identification Government Exhibit Number 362, 325, 326, and 327.

(Government Exhibits Nos. 362, 325, 326, and 327 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you, Mr. Ivory, what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 362. You may open it and tell us whether or not you can identify it.
A This was sealed at the lab. Do you have a knife or something? Perhaps I can see without it. Yes, sir. I can.
Q What is it?
A It is a vial containing debris that was picked up from the bed in Kristen's bedroom. It was picked up by myself and Mr. Rowe while processing that room.
Q Let me hand you Government Exhibit 325 and ask, sir, if you can identify it.
A Yes, sir. This is a vial that contains debris and fibers that were found on the floor of the master bedroom by the left hand of the body of Colette MacDonald.
Q Let me hand you Government Exhibit Number 326 and ask, sir, whether or not you can identify it.
A Yes, sir. This is the vial that was used to collect fibers and rug strands from the master bedroom rug by the footboard of the bed.
Q Finally, let me hand you Government Exhibit Number 327 and ask if you can identify it, please, sir.
A Yes, sir. Again, this is a vial that was used to pick up fibers and other debris from within that body outline. Hairs were found within, I say, within the body outline of Colette MacDonald.

MR. BLACKBURN: We would mark, Your Honor, Government Exhibit 135, 136, 137, and 132.

(Government Exhibits 135, 136, 137, and 132 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN;
Q Mr. Ivory, let me also hand you Government Exhibit 457, already in evidence and give you Government Exhibit 135 and ask you, sir, whether you can identify and tell us what it is?
A All right. 135 is also my exhibit or evidence collection item number 24-K, which, according to the notes I made at the time, is suspected blood sample from the floor, 3 foot, 4 1/2 inches northwest of the east corner of the stove front, 3 foot northeast of the west corner of the stove front. In essence, in front of the kitchen cabinet or sink cabinet.

MR. SMITH: I'm sorry, I didn't get the exhibit number.

MR. BLACKBURN: That was 135, the one we were showing him.

MR. SMITH: Thank you.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q The next exhibit, Mr. Ivory, is 136. I ask you if you can identify that exhibit?
A All right. This also bears my sequence number -- my evidence number -- 25-K, which is a suspected blood sample from six spots in a marked block, 1 foot, 9 1/4 inches north of the west corner of the stove front. Again, that area where it was circled on the floor directly in front of the kitchen cabinet or sink cabinet.

MR. SMITH: May I confer with counsel for a moment, Your Honor, to see if we are together on exhibit numbers?

THE COURT: All right.

(Counsel confer.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you, Mr. Ivory, Government Exhibit Number 135, and ask, sir, if you can identify that?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A It is a test tube, again, that was used to collect the item marked by me, 24-K.
Q That is the one you just did?
A Yes, I just did that. I did 24 and 25.

MR. BLACKBURN: Let me put it over here.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q 132; I ask if you can identify it?
A I'll have to open this in order to read this.
Q Yes.
A Do you have another piece of paper in case there is something that might spill out of this? Yes, sir, I can identify it.
Q What is it?
A This is a scraping that was made while a search was being made underneath the sink in the kitchen in the area where the rubber gloves were stored, or the latex surgeon gloves were stored. A stain was noticed on the underside of one of the sinks and this is a scraping made from the underside of the sink.
Q Let me hand you Government Exhibit 137 and ask if you can identify it, sir?
A Yes, sir; this is a test tube used to collect items marked by us, as 26-K, which is a suspected blood sample from the floor in a marked block, 2 foot, 6 1/2 inches north of the south wall, 2 inches east of sink cabinet. Again, scrapings from the floor and that area immediately in front of the kitchen sink cabinet.
Q Finally, sir, let me hand you Government Exhibit 136 and ask if you can identify that?
A Again, this is a test tube used to collect suspected blood drops from my exhibit 25-K, which is suspected blood sample from six spots in that marked block, again, immediately in front of the kitchen cabinet.

MR. SEGAL: Your Honor, may we see you at sidebar?


B E N C H C O N F E R E N C E

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, we are getting ready to hand him some additional vials that came out of Kristen's room, the north bedroom. He testified this morning concerning these notes that Mr. Rowe made in his presence and that he looked at. They have already been admitted into evidence. I was going to allow him to use these to refresh his recollection just as he did the notes previously used in the kitchen.

THE COURT: He authenticated the notes, as I recall, this morning.

MR. BLACKBURN: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. SEGAL: I OBJECT, Your Honor.
There is no evidence from this witness that he read those notes at, or near, the time they were made, and concluded at that time that that was an accurate statement.

THE COURT: Well, you will have to qualify him then. Go ahead and ask him.

MR. BLACKBURN: Sure.

MR. SEGAL: Please, no leading questions this time.

MR. BLACKBURN: You are free to object.

(Bench conference terminated.)


BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you what you testified to this morning as Government Exhibit 458 and ask you again, sir, what those are?
A Yes, sir, these are the notes that were made by Mr. Rowe, the chemist, while processing the north bedroom or the bedroom of Kristen MacDonald, and indicates by our sequence number and the letters "nb" those items taken from the north bedroom for evaluation at the laboratory.
Q Where were you when those notes were made and what were you doing?
A With Mr. Rowe in the north bedroom collecting the items.
Q Who actually collected the items?
A We both collected some items. I collected most of the items while Mr. Rowe was making the actual notes.
Q Have you ever had an occasion prior to today to read those notes?
A Yes, sir, as they were transcribed on to other documents listing what we took from the north bedroom, yes.
Q What is the relationship, sir, between those notes and the items that you collected from the north bedroom, Kristen's room?
A These describe by number and also description those items taken from the north bedroom.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, at this point we would ask that this witness be allowed to use those notes for purposes of refreshing his recollection.

THE COURT: Very well.

MR. SEGAL: Beg your pardon, Your Honor? I'm sorry, I could not hear you.

THE COURT: I said, "Very well." I've heard no objection to it.

MR. SEGAL: I was on my feet, if Your Honor pleases. I apologize. There is no indication that this man read those notes, saw them at or near the time in which they were made.

THE COURT: I thought he just asked him that. Did you not?

MR. BLACKBURN: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: Did you hear him?

MR. SEGAL: I did not hear that answer, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Well, let him say it again, then.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q What is the relationship, sir, between those notes and the items that you and Mr. Rowe collected --

MR. SEGAL: (Interposing) Beg your pardon. Excuse me, go ahead and finish.

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q -- that you and Mr. Rowe collected in the north bedroom or Kristen's room?

MR. SEGAL: Excuse me, Mr. Ivory.
That is not what I understood to what Your Honor was suggesting should be the question. The question Your Honor has stated was the one I thought would be the appropriate one to put to this witness.

THE COURT: Were you familiar with the existence of these notes at or about the time you were making this investigation?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: Did you have occasion to look at them then?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: Are you by looking at them now able to refresh your recollection as to anything stated therein, or do they serve that purpose?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, at this time we would mark for identification Government Exhibit 359, 360 and 361, 377 and 376, 1123, 372, and 324.

(Government Exhibits No. 359, 360 and 361, 377 and 376, 1123, 372, and 324 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 359, 360 and 361, and ask if you can identify it, sir?
A Yes, sir, I can.
Q What are they?
A These are vials used to collect the blood sample -- the blood stains from the floor -- of Kristen's rooms, the north bedroom, and bear the markings -- or identification markings we put on them -- of 48nb, 49nb, and 50nb.
Q Let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit Number 324, and ask, sir, whether or not you can identify it?
A Yes, sir, I can.
Q What is it?
A This is the vial used by me to collect a blue thread from the area in the master bedroom -- not in the north bedroom but in the master bedroom -- down behind the headboard of the bed around where the word "pig" was written.
Q Let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 376 and 377, and ask whether or not you can identify it -- identify both of them?
A Yes, sir, I can.
Q What are they?
A They are test tubes used to collect more blood evidence, more blood stains and blood crusts from areas identified by us as 65nb and 68nb, which were taken from the plastic sheet on the bottom -- the contour sheet on the bottom mattress of the bed of Kristen MacDonald in the north bedroom.
Q Let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 372, and ask whether or not you can identify that, sir?
A Yes, sir.
Q What is it?
A It is a vial used to collect hairs and fibers from the contour bottom sheet from the bed of the -- in the north bedroom of Kristen MacDonald.
Q Finally, sir, let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 1123, and ask whether or not you can identify that?
A Yes, sir.
Q What is it?
A These are vials containing debris that was found in the living room by Mr. Medlin and myself as we went through the pile of that carpet, down in -- between the sofa and the upturned coffee table.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, at this time I would mark for identification Government Exhibits 357, 370, 381, and 358.

(Government Exhibits Nos. 357, 370, 381, and 358 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you, Mr. Ivory, what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 357, and ask whether or not you can identify it?
A Yes, sir, I can.
Q What is it, if you would speak loudly?
A Yes, sir, I can; it is a vial, and also the strand of thick green yarn that was found on the floor in that throw rug, or that carpet, in the north bedroom. It bears our number 36nb.
Q Let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 370, and ask whether or not you can identify it?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A It is the vial that was used to collect evidence in the north bedroom. It bears our number 59nb, which is hairs, fibers and miscellaneous debris from the top sheet of the bed of Kristen MacDonald.
Q Let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 381 and ask whether or not you can identify it?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A This item, while it appears on the list from the north bedroom, actually has a number "mbr" for "master bedroom," and it appears out of sequence in the normal collection of items from the north bedroom. But these are colored yarns that were observed and found on the bedside table, or the nightstand by the bed in the master bedroom, and were similar in appearance to that strand of yarn that we found on the floor of the north bedroom.
For that reason, they were taken -- after that was picked up and collected in the north bedroom, the single strand of yarn -- these were obtained from the master bedroom and included with the others for ease -- to make it easier for us in sorting the evidence out and sending them to the laboratory for comparison with the single strand of yarn.
Q Let me hand you, Mr. Ivory, what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 358, and ask you whether or not you can tell us what it is?
A Could I see that list again, please?
Q Certainly.
A But yes; I can identify it; yes. It is marked by me with the initials and date and again, that is how we mark the items -- 37nb -- to indicate obtained from the north bedroom, by that sequence number. And it is the green throw rug obtained from the floor next to the bed of Kristen MacDonald.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, at this time, we would mark for identification Government Exhibits 371 and 373.

(Government Exhibits 371 and 373 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 371 and ask, sir, whether or not you can identify it?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A This is the item removed from the north bedroom by the number of 60nb, and is the top sheet from the bed of Kristen MacDonald. It is marked for identification by both myself and William Rowe, as we collected it on the 20th of February.
Q Let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit Number 373, and ask you whether or not you can identify it, sir?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A The item removed from the north bedroom by our number 64nb, and is the contour bottom sheet from the bed of Kristen MacDonald, again with the body outline marked on it, and my initials and the initials of William Rowe, and the date we collected it of 20 February, 1970.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, we would mark Government Exhibit Number 364.

(Government Exhibit 364 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Let me hand you, Mr. Ivory, Government Exhibit 364 and ask whether or not you can identify it?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A This is the item obtained from the north bedroom with the number 56nb, which is the green bedspread with suspected blood stains which was on the bed of Kristen MacDonald, and again bears my initials and the initials of William Rowe when we collected it on the 20th of February, 1970.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would like to mark for identification Government Exhibits 375, 374, 363, and 378.

(Government Exhibits 375, 374, 363 and 378 were marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 375 and ask whether or not you can identify it, sir?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A This is the item obtained from the north bedroom with our number 66nb, which is the plastic contour sheet from the upper mattress of the bed of Kristen MacDonald. Again, it bears my initials and the date of collection of 20 February, 1970.
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 363, and ask whether or not you can identify that exhibit?
A Yes, sir; this is the vial that was used to collect item 57nb, which is hairs, fibers and miscellaneous debris from the pink blanket on the bed of Kristen MacDonald.
Q Let me hand you what has been marked as Government Exhibit 374, and ask whether or not you can identify it, sir?
A This is item 67nb collected in the north bedroom. It is a portion of the contour or the plastic sheet on the lower mattress. 67nb is a rectangle cut from the northeast corner of plastic contour sheet from the lower mattress of the bed of Kristen MacDonald.
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 378, and ask if you can identify that exhibit, sir?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A These are items 69, 70, and 71nb, which are small portions of the wall directly over the side of the bed of Kristen MacDonald that bore blood stains that were splattered on the wall. These were collected for submission to the laboratory for analysis of the blood. Yes, as listed here, suspected blood stains from west wall of the bedroom -- all three of them being the same.
Q Mr. Ivory, I wonder if you would come down from there to the model and point out on the model where it is on the model that you found the last exhibit?
A On the wall?
Q Yes, sir. If you would stand behind it, maybe the jurors can stand up if they cannot see.
A In the bedroom of Kristen MacDonald in this area (indicating) going diagonally in this direction (indicating). That is 69, 70, and 71.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, I would mark for identification Government Exhibit Number 368.

(Government Exhibit 368 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. BLACKBURN:
Q Mr. Ivory, let me hand you what has been marked for identification as Government Exhibit Number 368, and ask if you can identify it?
A Yes, sir; I can.
Q What is it?
A This is an item marked by us, 58nb, which is the pink blanket -- a part of the bedding on the bed of Kristen MacDonald -- again, obtained or marked by Mr. Rowe and myself on the date of collection, 20 February, 1970.
Q If you would, Mr. Ivory, on that photograph, would you point out on that photograph where the blood splattered or suspected blood splattered exhibit was that you were referring to a moment ago?
A On the wall right here (indicating).

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, may I have just a moment?

(Counsel confer.)

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, at this time, I would like to move into evidence certain exhibits which I will read out -- Exhibit Number 368, 373, 374 -- I am sorry -- 373, 364, 375, 371, 358, 381, 375 if I have not mentioned it.

THE COURT: You did one time.

MR. BLACKBURN: And also from this morning, Your Honor, Government Exhibit 101, 102, 103, and 104. At this time, Your Honor, along with the other items previously mentioned, we would move these into evidence.

MR. SEGAL: Your Honor, would you defer the ruling until after our afternoon recess so that Mr. Smith and I can figure out exactly what the Government is talking about?

THE COURT: All right. I will defer that ruling.

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, at this point, that will conclude our Direct Examination. Defense may cross-examine.

THE COURT: All right. Do you want to cross-examine?

MR. SEGAL: Yes, Your Honor, certainly.


C R O S S - E X A M I N A T I O N 3:38 p.m.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Mr. Ivory, when did you first enter the Army?
A 1958.
Q What had you done prior to entering the Army?
A I was a student. I was a member of the Marine Corps Reserve prior to entering the Army.
Q You say that you were a student. You were a student at what kind of school or institution?
A High school.
Q Had you finished high school before entering the Army?
A Had I? No, sir.
Q How far had you gone in high school?
A Through my senior year.
Q But you did not finish your senior year?
A No, sir.
Q When you say that you were in the Marine Corps Reserve, does that mean that you would go once a week to a drill meeting?
A Yes, sir.
Q You went away in the summer time for two weeks?
A Yes, sir.
Q How long had you been in the Marine Reserves?
A A year and a half, perhaps.
Q So, you were probably at the rank of private; correct?
A PFC.
Q None of the work that you did in the Marine Corps Reserve had anything to do with criminal investigation; did it?
A No, sir; it didn't.
Q You entered the Army in what year and what month?
A September -- August or September of 1958.
Q Will you tell us, please, where you were first assigned and for how long?
A To Fort Dix.
Q That is in New Jersey. Right?
A Yes. For a matter of weeks, and Fort Benning, Georgia, for two or two-and-a-half months, to Fort Gordon for two months in the Military Police School, to Fort Bragg for about a year.
Q Let's go back. Tell me, please, what you did at Fort Dix for the first eight weeks you were in the Army.
A In-processing.
Q Beg your pardon?
A In-processing into the Army.
Q Basic training?
A Yes, sir. No, no. Excuse me. Not basic training. In-processing -- administrative in-processing.
Q For eight weeks?
A No, I said a matter of a few weeks.
Q A few weeks. How long were you at Fort Dix?
A I don't recall.
Q Did you go to any classes?
A Indoctrination classes.
Q It wasn't what you'd call your instruction period in the Army. was it?
A No, not exactly.
Q When did that take place?
A Whether it was August or September of that year in 1958.
Q What was your next assignment after Fort Dix after the in-processing was done?
A Fort Benning, Georgia.
Q What did you do there?
A Basic training.
Q And your basic training was in the infantry?
A Yes.
Q That was eight weeks?
A Yes.
Q Then, when you were finished with your basic training in infantry, where was your next assignment again, please?
A To Fort Gordon, Georgia, for Military Police training.
Q And how long were you at the Provost Marshal's School at Fort Gordon?
A For a matter of two months or so.
Q And that was your first introduction to work in law enforcement. Is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q You took the basic course for a military policeman at that time?
A Yes, I did.
Q Tell us, please, something about the subjects -- the curriculum -- that was covered in the basic course for a military policeman.
A Well, Mr. Segal, we are talking about the training I received 20 years ago. It involved patrol procedures, Military Police reports, riot control, firearms training, self-defense training, a basic uniformed police course.
Q During that two-month course at Fort Gordon, where you learned to be a military policeman, did you ever hear anybody talk about crime scenes and the problems that law enforcement officers should be aware of about crime scenes?
A Yes.
Q You have a clear recollection that that was part of your first training as a law enforcement officer. Is that right?
A As a clear recollection, I say no. This was 20 years ago, but I am sure it is part of the curriculum.
Q Believe me. If you don't remember, then please say so.
A Okay.
Q I am asking you now, do you have a recollection of having learned anything about crime scene protection in the very first course you ever took in law enforcement in the Army?
A Yes, I do. Specifically what was taught I don't recall but yes, the subject was covered.
Q Would it be fair to say that that very first course that you had, even though you were only preparing to become a patrol officer and not an investigator at that level, that it was stressed to you -- the importance of protecting a crime scene? Is that right?
A I'm sure.
Q Beg your pardon?
A I'm sure.
Q You're not sure you specifically remember that but it makes sense that that was probably what happened?
A Exactly.

THE COURT: This is where we go to our afternoon recess and come back at 4:00 o'clock today. Members of the jury, don't talk about the case.

(The proceeding was recessed at 3:45 p.m., to reconvene at 4:00 p.m., this same day.)


F U R T H E R P R O C E E D I N G S 4:00 p.m.

(The following proceedings were held in the presence of the jury and alternates.)

THE COURT: Proceed.

(Whereupon, WILLIAM F. IVORY, the witness on the stand at the time of recess, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:.)


C R O S S - E X A M I N A T I O N (resumed)

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Mr. Ivory, you mentioned that while you were taking that course at Fort Gordon, to be a basic military policeman, you studied patrol procedures; is that right?
A Yes.
Q Did you study about the procedures for setting up roadblocks?
A I don't specifically recall. Again, I say it was 20 or 21 years ago.
Q Would I be correct in saying that prior to February 17, 1970, however, you had learned something about the patrol procedure for setting up roadblocks, hadn't you?
A Yes.
Q You had heard, I assume, that roadblocks were frequently a part of a patrol officer's duties in law enforcement work; had you not heard that?
A Yes, in some instances, yes.
Q In other words, it was fair to say that by February 17th of 1970, wherever you had learned it, you had learned there was such a thing as a roadblock, which could be useful in some instances to law officers; is that right?
A That is correct.
Q Now let's get back again, if you will. After you finished this basic course at Fort Gordon, where were you assigned? To what unit and where was it located?
A The 503rd Military Battalion at Fort Bragg.
Q Fort Gordon or Fort Bragg? Where was it?
A At Fort Bragg.
Q You were there from when until when?
A I was there approximately one year, during the year of 1959.
Q Roughly what month, if you can remember, did it begin and what month did it end?
A Perhaps January to December.
Q 1959?
A That is correct.
Q And what was your rank during most of that period while you were at Fort Bragg?
A I was a Private First Class.
Q What were the duties you performed that year, as, far as you can recall?
A I was a patrolman.
Q Well, what did you do?
A I patrolled the reservation at Fort Bragg.
Q You were riding in a jeep or a sedan?
A Yes.
Q You would cover what, certain residential areas of the Post?
A Yes, I did.
Q You covered certain of the non-residential facilities such as training schools and things like that?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did you ever cover any places on the Post besides residential areas and the training facilities?
A That is about the entire Post.
Q I kind of had in mind, as training facilities, as places where there are buildings and structures, correct?
A No, that is what I call residential. We patrolled the entire military reservation, be it the family residential area, or the troop billet area, or the open training grounds out in the woods.
Q What I was asking is, however, what you yourself were engaged in during that period of time? Did you spend much time patrolling the back roads out on the ranges?
A Yes, we did.
Q You did that by sitting in a car and driving miles and miles over back roads. Is that right?
A Usually in jeeps when we were out on the back roads.
Q That's what you did, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Did you do anything else during that period of time other than what you have described so far?
A Other than miscellaneous duties within the Military Police Battalion as prescribed for maintenance of vehicles or whatever, yes -- normal military duties.
Q Did you become involved, as a military policeman, in any homicide case of any sort in that year?
A I do not recall. Now, fatal traffic accidents, I can say with surety, but homicide -- I cannot recall.
Q Somewhat a difference between a traffic accident fatality as there is in a homicidal investigation though, isn't there?
A (Witness nods affirmatively.)
Q All right, after you finished this period of time at the 503rd M.P. Battalion, what was your next assignment?
A I was assigned to the Military Police Battalion in Augsburg, Germany.
Q What battalion was that, if you know?
A I think it was the 508th Military Police Battalion.
Q And how long were you in Germany?
A I was there until April of 1962.
Q Is it fair to say roughly two years?
A Two years.
Q I can't hear you.
A Perhaps two or two and a half years.
Q And what were the nature of your assignments while you were in Germany?
A As a patrolman, as highway patrolman, with the Military Police.
Q You said highway patrolman?
A Yes.
Q What highways did you patrol in Germany?
A The federal highways, the Federal Autobahn, all the highways in our area of jurisdiction -- within the area of jurisdiction of the Augsburg Military Police station.
Q You were patrolling for the military vehicles, weren't you?
A Yes.
Q You had nothing to do with civilian traffic on those highways?
A No, except we were involved in traffic accidents with the military.
Q Did you do much traffic investigation during that period of time?
A Yes, I did.
Q A lot of accidents between military vehicles and/or civilian vehicles?
A Yes, there were.
Q Would it be correct to say that probably the largest part of your work in Germany was spent in patrol work and traffic investigation?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q What was your rank when you were reassigned after your tour of duty in Germany?
A I was an E-4 or Specialist Fourth Class.
Q Is that equivalent to a Corporal?
A Yes.
Q Now, had you gone to any schools, military schools, while you were in Germany?
A Yes, I did.
Q What schools had you gone to?
A The Traffic Accident Investigation School, which is sponsored by Northwestern University, and took place in Oberammergau, Germany.
Q When did you attend that school?
A In the fall of 1960.
Q That would be shortly after you received this assignment in Germany?
A Well, within that first year; yes.
Q How long was this particular course that you attended?
A Six or eight weeks, I'm not sure. Six weeks, perhaps.
Q Tell me something about the curriculum of that program, as best you can recall?
A It was a general investigative course for traffic accident scenes. I don't know how much more specific I can be.
Q Did you learn about tire skid marks?
A Yes.
Q Did you learn how to calculate how fast a car was going by measuring its skid mark?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did you learn things about point of impact about automobiles?
A Yes.
Q Anything else specifically that you can recall you covered in those courses?
A Photography of accident scenes.
Q Yes, anything else?
A Recording of accident scenes, records and reports.
Q How to fill out the paperwork?
A Yes, field interrogation of persons involved in accidents.
Q Any other significant part of the curriculum that you can remember now?
A No.
Q I'm interested in your experience with photography at school. How much of the school period was devoted to photography?
A I can't recall, I really can't.
Q Well, did you know much about handling, say, sophisticated cameras before you went through that course?
A No, no I did not.
Q What type of cameras did you work with while you were at the Traffic Accident Investigation School?
A Four by five Speedgraphic camera.
Q Is that the only camera that you worked with during your school period?
A Yes.
Q Prior to that time, had you ever personally owned or used for any extended period, say, a good 35 millimeter single-lens reflex camera?
A No, never a single-lens reflex camera.
Q So this was your real introduction into photography, right?
A In essence, yes, with the exception of, perhaps, a Brownie box camera; yes.
Q All right, and how many hours of instruction did you have in operating these Speedgraphic cameras?
A I do not recall.
Q More than a day, less than a day?
A It was scattered over a few weeks' period -- an hour here, an hour there, I cannot recall.
Q Did you consider yourself to be a competent photographer with the Speedgraphic when you finished that school?
A Not really. I didn't enjoy working with that particular camera; no.
Q I missed the very last part.

THE COURT: He said he did not enjoy working with that particular camera.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q That particular camera?
A Yes.

THE COURT: Yes, that is what he said.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Is there some other camera you knew of at that time that you would rather have worked with?
A Perhaps a more easier to handle camera or smaller camera -- a 120 or a 35 millimeter, perhaps.
Q Did you learn anything about the problems of taking close-up photographs while you were at that school?
A The problems? Well, we learned about taking close-up pictures, yes.
Q Did you learn how to do that? How to take close-ups?
A Yes.
Q Did it require any special equipment to learn how to do close-up photography?
A Did I acquire? I'm sorry?
Q Did it require, my fault, did it require any special equipment when you were taking close-up photographs at that particular school?
A No.
Q Did you ever work with a double-extension bellows with the Speedgraphic camera?
A No; I didn't.
Q All right; after you finished with that particular program, you then went back to your unit, I gather?
A Yes.
Q Did you attend any other classes or courses while you were in Germany from 1960 to '62?
A Other than recurring training within the military police unit, no.
Q Did you investigate, between 1960 and '62, any homicide cases?
A Sir, I was a military policeman; I was not an investigator.
Q I understand; but perhaps somebody simply drafted you to help them in a case, and I thought it would be helpful to know about that.
A No, sir; I was called to the scene of a homicide, but I was not involved in an investigation.
Q Stood guard over the crime scene?
A Yes, sir.
Q What did you do when you were standing guard at the crime scene?
A Restricted access to the crime scene.
Q Restricted access to what?
A To the crime scene?
Q You mean, you kept the people away?
A Exactly.
Q Tell me something about that crime scene. Was it a house, or was it an outdoor location?
A It was in a house.
Q In a house?
A Yes, sir.
Q Where did they post you?
A At the front door.
Q Front door. Was it an apartment building or a home?
A An apartment building.
Q The apartment was on the first floor that you were guarding?
A It was on the first floor; yes.
Q Had the homicide taken place inside?

MR. BLACKBURN: Your Honor, we would OBJECT. We don't see the relevancy of this question.

THE COURT: Yes, I am inclined to agree. If you want to show what this man's qualifications are for gathering evidence, this is what his testimony has been. As the Court recalls, certainly all day today has just been identifying stuff that he got. Go into that; but to show that they checked him out on accident scenes and so forth back in 1960, I fail to see the relevance of that.

MR. SEGAL: May I just indicate, Your Honor, that we aren't trying to waste the Court's time, but that the Government has asked this witness, by my count on any 12 different separate occasions, about was the scene the same, did he give instructions; and he has testified to that. I really want to know something about his understanding of the responsibilities for protecting a crime scene.

THE COURT: All right; ask him that.

MR. SEGAL: I will get there. I think we need his background first. If you will indulge me, I think it will ultimately prove edifying to everybody here.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. SEGAL: Thank you, Your Honor.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q All right; aside from that particular episode you described in Germany, did you have any other contact with crime scene protection between 1960 and '62?
A Well, there were numerous calls I went on which were, in perhaps one regard or another or one matter or another be regarded as protecting a crime scene in the course of accident investigator, for example. Some accidents are crimes if they are not an accident, such as negligent homicide, involuntary manslaughter, whatever.
Q Were you asked to participate in any roadblocks while you were in Germany, or to set any roadblocks up?
A No, sir.
Q While you were dealing with accidents in automobiles, did you ever use little rubber pylons in any way?
A No, sir.
Q Didn't set them up around an accident scene and say, "Folks, keep away!"?
A I did not.
Q Probably wouldn't have done any good, would it?

MR. BLACKBURN: OBJECTION.

THE COURT: I believe I will OVERRULE that objection.

THE WITNESS: I don't know what you mean, sir.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Do you think setting up a rubber pylon would protect a crime scene?
A I am not sure what you mean, sir.
Q Do you think --

THE COURT: (Interposing) You know what a rubber pylon is, don't you?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir; they are cones.

THE COURT: They are little conal things. He wants to know whether or not, if I understood his questions, they would have done any good if you had set them up. I think that was the question.

THE WITNESS: In and of themselves, perhaps not.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Yes. All right; after 1962, what was your next assignment?
A I received my discharge from the military.
Q I missed something you said; my fault.
A I was honorably discharged from the military.
Q I see; and what did you do after you left the military service?
A I returned to my home in Massachusetts and remained there for a year or so, a little over a year, and then re-enlisted in the military.
Q Where did you live during that period of time -- what town?
A In a suburb of Boston.
Q Can you tell us where that is?
A Yes; I lived in the city of Chelsea, I lived in the city of Medford, and I lived in the city of Somerville.
Q What sort of work or school did you participate in during that year?
A I worked as a truck driver for a short period and then acquired a job with Sylvania Electronics as a uniformed security guard.
Q As a security guard?
A Yes; at a defense facility.
Q Did you have any other job during that period of a year?
A No; I did not.
Q As a security guard for Sylvania, what were your responsibilities?
A For protection of classified material and classified documents and equipment, and again, restricting access to the grounds to personnel authorized to come on the premises.
Q Did they have a fence around their plant?
A No; they didn't.
Q How did you engage in restricting people from getting into the plant?
A At the entrances and exits to the building.
Q You mean, the doorway to the plant?
A Yes.
Q A desk there of some sort?
A Yes.
Q Somebody came in and you had to be satisfied they were a proper person to enter the plant?
A Exactly.
Q Did you go through any training program while you worked with Sylvania on how to be a security guard?
A No; I did not.
Q They relied on your prior military experience?
A Yes.
Q Roughly how long did you work for Sylvania?
A Nine months, perhaps; I don't recall, really.
Q So then you tell us that you re-enlisted in the Army. That would be about what date?
A August-September, 1963.
Q What was your first assignment after re-enlisting?
A To the 728th Military Police Battalion in Seoul, Korea.
Q How long were you in Korea with that unit?
A For one year.
Q Roughly August-September of '64?
A Yes.
Q Am I correct?
A Yes.
Q What were your duties with the 728th?
A A military police patrolman.
Q And what was your rank for most of that year?
A When I returned to the military, I had to go back in in the rank of PFC, and within that year, I attained my previous rank of E-4, or Specialist Fourth Class.
Q Back to the Corporal level?
A Exactly.
Q And where did you spend most of that time in Korea? Were you in Seoul?
A Yes.
Q Were you in Seoul the entire time?
A Yes.
Q That would be the capital of South Korea; is that correct?
A That is correct.
Q What were you doing there?
A I was a patrolman and patrolled the city and the reservation around Seoul, and I was selected to be the driver for the Eighth Army Provost Marshal for a short period, and then I departed.
Q You mean, you were the chauffeur for the Chief of Military Police of the Eighth Army; is that correct?
A Exactly.
Q How long did you do that?
A For a few months; I don't recall.
Q It did not involve any investigation doing that work, did it?
A No; it did not.
Q Didn't set up any roadblocks doing that work, did you?
A No; I did not.
Q I doubt whether you preserved any crime scenes either, while doing that?
A No; I did not.
Q And for the rest of the time, when you were not chauffeur for the Army Chief of Police there, did you do any crime scene protection?
A Not as I can specifically recall.
Q Did you participate in either setting up or being part of the roadblock while you with the 728th MP Battalion?
A In a manner of speaking, we did; yes.
Q How many times did you do that?
A Half a dozen times, perhaps.
Q What were the circumstances in which you participated in a roadblock -- some prisoner or soldier who was wanted for some crime and you were seeking to apprehend that person?
A No; it seems that whenever it rained, the bank alarm would go off, and we would have to close the gates of the post.
Q The bank alarm would go off?
A Yes.
Q As you close the gates of the post. Right?
A Yes.
Q How big was the post? Which one are you talking about?
A Jung Sun (phonetic) military reservation.
Q How big was Jung Sun roughly?
A From gate to gate perhaps a mile.
Q So you got to the gate and stood there and said no one should leave?
A Exactly.
Q That's a roadblock of sorts?
A Of sorts. Yes.
Q So you said --

MR. BLACKBURN: (Interposing) Your Honor, we OBJECT to this line of questioning again.

THE COURT: He is going to show -- what is it you are going to show?

MR. SEGAL: I did not say when, Your Honor, but I will ultimately show that it is quite relevant.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q After you finished your tour of duty in Seoul, Korea, what was your next assignment in the Army?
A I was transferred to France to the Military Police unit in France.
Q What unit was that?
A The first one just went by the name of Security Company of the Trois Fontaines Ammo Depot.
Q The Security Company for the which ammo depot?
A Trois Fontaines -- three fountains.
Q How long were you in France altogether?
A For roughly two-and-a-half years.
Q And was the entire period of time spent in that particular depot?
A No, sir.
Q How long were you at the Security Company Ammo Depot?
A Within that first year I was accepted for training with the local CID office.
Q I'm interested in that but I really want the first piece of information, please. How long were you with the Security Company?
A A matter of months, say, within that first year.
Q Were you a year with the Security Company?
A I was assigned to the Security Company --

MR. SEGAL: (Interposing) Yes?

THE WITNESS: Attached to the local CID office as a military Police investigator.

Q I see. How long did you do security work before you became an investigator for the local CID attachment?
A A few months as I recall.
Q Well, now, what's the date by the month and year that you had your first assignment with the CID unit?
A It was sometime within the latter part of 1964.
Q What training did you go through first before you undertook this responsible job of becoming a CID investigator?
A I was not a CID investigator. I said I was a Military Police investigator attached to the CID office.

MR. SEGAL: I believe you are right. I'm sorry. You did say Military Police investigator.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Now, tell us what is a Military Police investigator, first of all.
A It is a non-accredited investigator, accredited being a school-trained CID agent with credentials from, at the time, the Provost Marshal General. I was a military policeman and was assigned duties as a Military Police investigator to assist the CID and was given credentials by the local Provost Marshal.
Q What training did you have before you took up your duties as a Military Police investigator?
A My Military Police training and experience and I received --

MR. SEGAL: (Interposing) Excuse me. Besides what we've already heard this afternoon.

THE WITNESS: I received on-the-job training.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Would it be correct to say that, before you started working, you had not received any special training, then, other than the things you've told us about so far?
A Other than my Military Police training and experience, yes.
Q We've heard about that. You received no new training before you started to work as an investigator -- a Military Police investigator?
A No.
Q And was all training received in the beginning of your work as a Military Police investigator things that were told you by your senior investigators? Is that right?
A That's correct.
Q Did you get any books to read about criminal investigation?
A Yes.
Q Did you read any?
A Of course.
Q Could you tell us, perhaps, one or two books that you read about criminal investigation when you began your first assignment in 1964 as an MP investigator?
A The then Military Police or CID training manuals were all the books that were offered to me for crime scene and interrogation. I don't recall the titles. I don't recall the author.
Q Do you recall reading CID training manuals when you took up your work as an MP investigator?
A I certainly do.
Q That would be right from the beginning of that work?
A Yes.
Q Was there information in those training manuals about crime scene protection?
A Yes.
Q Was there a considerable amount of stress placed upon crime scene protection?
A A reasonable amount, yes.
Q More so than you ever heard of before when you really functioned as a military policeman?
A Probably. Yes, sir.
Q So you also learned something about interrogation? You read something on interrogation? Is that right?
A Yes, that's correct.
Q Do you recall what you read -- a manual or book that you read?
A A manual, a book, and I also received, as I think I've mentioned before, training on interviews of persons involved in traffic accidents, which was very useful.
Q There's considerable difference, wouldn't you say, between interviewing people in traffic accidents and interviewing people in a homicide case?
A No, sir. Perhaps -- the seriousness of the offense is perhaps greater but basically obtaining information from that person -- the basics are the basics.
Q You don't think there are any greater or lesser problems between interrogating in a traffic accident and interrogating in a homicide case?
A I didn't say there was not any more difficulties but I'd say the principles are the same.
Q All right, now. How long did you actually serve as an MP investigator in France?
A I was accepted as a CID investigator while I was in France in 1966 as a card-carrying CID agent. That was the first time.
Q So you became a CID investigator in 1966?
A That's right.
Q Between the time you started as an MP investigator in 1964 and the time you became a CID investigator in 1966 did you attend any schools of any sort?
A No, sir. I did not.
Q Your training was all on-the-job training of how to be an investigator. Is that right?
A That's correct.
Q Did you take an examination to become a CID investigator in 1966?
A No, I did not.
Q Just a recommendation of your superior. Is that right?
A Exactly. That's correct.
Q Now, were you transferred to a different station when you became a CID investigator?
A No, sir. I wasn't.
Q How long did you stay in that capacity in France?
A Until the eviction of the American forces from France in 1967.
Q Now, did you have any training during that period of time by attendance at a school?
A No, sir. I did not.
Q Did you spend your time reading manuals about investigation and criminal investigation techniques?
A Yes, sir. I did.
Q Do you remember any of the manuals or books you read during that period of time?
A No, sir. I don't.
Q Did you investigate while you were an MP investigator from 1964 to 1967 -- rather, 1966 to 1967 -- any homicide cases?
A Not as I recall.
Q How about after you became a CID investigator from 1966 to 1967 -- did you investigate any homicide cases?
A No, sir. Not as I recall.
Q What was your next assignment after that in 1967?
A I was assigned to the CID office in Bamburg, Germany.
Q How long did you remain in the assignment in Germany?
A Until January of 1968.
Q When you were transferred to where?
A Fort Bragg.
Q While you were at the CID office in Germany, did you attend any training programs or courses?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you read any training manuals or books on homicide or criminal investigation of any sort?
A Yes, I did.
Q Can you name any of the books you read or studied at that time?
A No, I can't. What I did usually was to obtain a book from one of the senior agents libraries that they had perhaps behind their desk and read through it.
Q Did you not find any one book of such importance and such value that you ever thought of owning it and buying it yourself?
A No.
Q Did you own any books on criminal investigation at all during that period of time?
A The manuals -- the training manuals, yes -- if you'd call that owning them.
Q I'm sorry; go ahead, answer.
A No, I'm finished.
Q Did you have your own personal copies of the manuals?
A Yes.
Q You don't remember what their names were?
A They changed numbers so many times since that time, no, I can't cite the numbers for you.
Q I appreciate the problem about the numbers being changed on you; we have seen it this afternoon. But how about the names?
A "Criminal Investigation," "Military Police Investigation," "Records and Reports," "Report Writing Procedures."
Q Is there a lot of emphasis on report writing procedures?
A Yes.
Q Now, while you were in Germany from 1967 to 1968, did you investigate any homicide cases there?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q How many did you investigate?
A One that I -- one that I can recall.
Q Can you tell us very briefly what were the circumstances of that case so I can understand the nature of your experience and training?
A It was a drug-related murder. A man had stolen some drugs from some people he was selling them for, and they caught up to him and killed him and threw him in the river.
Q And these were all soldiers, is that right?
A No.
Q You mean the victim was not a soldier?
A The victim was a soldier.
Q I see. So, you worked, I would suppose, with the German civilian police?
A Yes.
Q It was really their prosecution for homicide that was going on, wasn't it?
A No, it was a joint investigation.
Q And so who was going to prosecute the German civilians -- not the Americans?
A Well, it would depend on who was found to be guilty of murder, or what suspects were developed.
Q I understand that it wound up the prosecution -- you prosecuted some German civilians, didn't you?
A No; it did not arrive at prosecution.
Q No prosecution at all?
A No.
Q Any other beside that one homicide investigation you told us about you worked on in 1967 and 1968?
A Not that I can recall.
Q All right, you returned to the United States, say, in 1968, and you were assigned to what office at Fort Bragg?
A At Fort Bragg, CID office.
Q And you remained there until February 17, 1970, when you were assigned to this particular investigation, is that right?
A That is correct.
Q The entire period of time when you returned from Germany until the time of MacDonald family murders, you were at Fort Bragg?
A That is correct.
Q Did you attend any training programs or courses during that period of time?
A Yes, sir, I did.
Q All right; what course or what program did you attend, and when did you attend it?
A The basic CID course within -- the month escapes me -- 1968.
Q And how long was that basic CID course?
A Eight weeks.
Q Back at Fort Gordon again?
A Yes, sir.
Q So that from the time you first started functioning as a military police investigator, back in 1964 until 1968, this is the first formal training program you had attended about investigation work?
A That is correct -- criminal investigation work.
Q Criminal investigation, quite right. Now, can you tell us something about the curriculum of this basic CID course you attended?
A It covered all aspects of criminal investigation from crime scene processing to records and reports, evidence collection, interviews and interrogations, photography.
Q Anything in that course devoted to crime scene protection?
A Yes, of course.
Q How much of the curriculum was spent in discussing the importance of crime scene protection?
A I can't give it to you in terms of hours, but perhaps in each segment of the course it would be stressed in one way or another -- protection of the scene.
Q Did you learn any principles of crime scene protection when you went to that course; I mean, principles that you could apply, you know, in serious investigations?
A Yes, I did.
Q Would you tell us now some of the principles of crime scene protection that you learned at that program that you carried with you as the guiding light of your work?
A Principles of restricting access to the crime scene, keeping unauthorized personnel away, ensuring that items of evidentiary value were not removed prior to being examined.
Q I missed the last thing you said.
A To ensure that perhaps items of evidence are not moved, say, either by unauthorized personnel or before they have been looked at by an agent. Of course, this does not always apply, but that is the general principle.
Q Any other general principles that you learned at that basic course in 1968, pertaining to crime scene protection that you can remember now that you want to share with us?
A Establishing perimeter security, restricting access, protecting the evidence -- I don't know what else I can say in general principles.
Q Now, when you finished that course, you returned to Fort Gordon to the CID detachment there; is that correct?
A That is correct.
Q Between the time that you first went to Fort Gordon in 1968, until February 17, 1970, when you were assigned the MacDonald case, how many homicides had you investigated at Fort Gordon?
A At Fort Gordon?
Q I beg your pardon -- my mistake -- Fort Bragg?
A I was involved in an investigation of a number of homicides at Fort Bragg both before and after the murder at the MacDonald household. In my mind, I cannot draw a line of which was before and which was after.
Q Let's perhaps break it down. Perhaps working together, we can arrive at the facts.
A I doubt it. I have been working on my mind myself because I have been asked that question before. There had been a number of suicides; murders. I know another murder that had happened afterwards.
Q You say that you have been asked that question before?
A I have asked myself that question.
Q About how many homicide cases you investigated while you were at Fort Bragg?
A Yes.
Q Don't you have any records or files that are available to you that might help you to answer that question?
A Not available to me, no, sir.
Q Have you ever tried to see if any CID records would be available and you could look over the cases that you were either assigned to or you had some significant participation in?
A I have never looked over the log books or records, no.
Q The idea never occurred to you to go look at those records?
A No.
Q It had not?
A No.
Q Well, let's put it this way. Were you the principal investigator in any homicide case at Fort Bragg between 1968, and the morning of February 17th, 1970?
A No, not as case agent, no.
Q You were not the case agent, and that name, "case agent," is the title for the principal investigator on a given case?
A Yes.
Q Had you ever been the first CID agent at the scene of a homicide charged with the responsibility of crime scene protection prior to the MacDonald family killings in 1970?
A Be at a murder -- or a homicide -- or a death investigation? Yes.
Q Homicide?
A Yes, a death investigation.
Q How many cases like that had you had between 1968 and 1970, where you were the investigator responsible for crime scene protection?
A I am afraid I can't give you that answer.
Q Two or three seem like a fair number?
A Two or three, yes.
Q No more than that?
A No, that is a good assumption.
Q But none as the lead case agent?

THE COURT: He said that.

MR. SEGAL: Very well.

BY MR. SEGAL:
Q Now, how many CID agents were there in your detachment in February of 1970, at Fort Bragg?
A Twelve, 15, perhaps. I really can't say.
Q Twelve or 15 seconds sounds like the right size for a detachment at a base this size; doesn't it?
A About that, yes. There were a number of detachments working together.
Q And who was the head of the CID detachment at Fort Gordon in February of 1970?
A Franz Joseph Grebner.
Q He held the rank of Chief Warrant officer, didn't he?
A That is correct.
Q As best as you recall, how many of the other members of that detachment were warrant officers of one grade or another?
A Most, perhaps.
Q How many members of the CID detachment were of a lower grade than warrant officer -- that is, some enlisted grade or specialist?
A Perhaps four or five.
Q And you were one of those four or five, weren't you?
A That is correct.
Q What was the rank that you held on February 17, 1970?
A I was an E-7, or a Sergeant First Class.
Q That means you had two stripes underneath; right?
A Yes; three on the top and two on the bottom.
Q Can't hear you.
A Yes; that would be three on the top and two on the bottom. I was in the Specialist category.
Q The equivalent in the Specialist rank to that?
A Exactly.
Q But in that unit, you were one of the lowest ranking members of that unit?
A No.
Q Well, if you say that most were warrant officers and only four or five men of the Specialist rank, doesn't that make you --
A (Interposing) I was one of the senior enlisted agents at the time.
Q Now, what is the first information that you received on February 17th, 1970, about the murders at the MacDonald family house?
A When I monitored a radio call from within the CID office.
Q When you say you "monitored a radio call," you had a radio that was turned on to the band that the various patrol units were using?
A That is correct.
Q What was that first message that you heard?
A I don't recall what the wording of it was -- just that I heard a loud -- the broadcast started to be loud, where it normally is in a monotone, where patrols are reporting their location. They are asked to go to a certain place, and they have to check a building -- make security checks. They deliver it in a monotone.
However, the transmission started to become more excited -- I don't know what word to use. There was just something that changed the tone of the people that were transmitting which brought my attention to the radio, and then I heard them discussing between the patrols at the scene and the military police desk that there had been a stabbing at one of the residences on the post.
Q First of all, would it be fair to say that the sounds that you heard over the radio that attracted your attention were the sounds of MPs shouting to each other over the radio?
A Not shouting; no, sir.
Q Were they excited?
A They were louder than normal. They were reporting something that was out of the ordinary, and I think it is just normal. It's not like you were saying, "I have just checked the back door of the bank, and it is secure." They were saying, "We have just checked the back door and found somebody had been stabbed." I think it is just normal that the tone of voice and the way that they were bringing themselves across in that transmission would be louder. It is not shouting. They did not seem to be out of control.
Q They were not excited and they were not shouting; is that right?
A That is what I am saying; yes, sir.
Q That is what I want to make sure. And this was about what time you heard that sound that attracted your attention on the radio?
A About ten minutes to 4:00.
Q You had been on duty at that point, what -- about 22 hours?
A That is correct.
Q You were within a couple of hours of the end of a 24-hour tour; is that right?
A That is correct.
Q Had you had much sleep that tour?
A Off and on, during the latter part of the night; yes.
Q But you were awake when that message came across; is that right?
A No; not really. I was laying in bed in the CID office in a light state of sleep, I would say.
Q And you were awakened by people who were not shouting and weren't excited speaking over the radio, is that right?
A That is what I'm saying, yes, sir.
Q And am I correct in my understanding, the only word that you can recall at this time that stuck in your memory is the word "stabbing"?
A "Stabbing," "cutting," something to that effect -- "assault" perhaps. But it was something to draw my attention to a stabbing. I believe that perhaps the term "stabbing" or "cutting" was used.
Q And that sort of startled you into a state of awakeness, isn't that right?
A That is correct.
Q And what did you do to check on what that message was? You were not really certain as to what had just been reported over the radio?
A I went to my radio, which is a transceiver, and went into the net and asked if there had been a fatal stabbing, and/or if there had been fatal injuries involved in it.
Q And did you get a response; and if you did, what was said?
A I got an affirmative response.
Q Well, someone said, "affirmative," someone said, "yes"; "there is one body," "...two bodies," "...three bodies," what?
A Someone said either "affirmative" or "yes."
Q Did you note that time at that particular moment?
A Yes, sir.
Q What did you write it down on?
A I'm sure a piece of paper that was set for that purpose by the telephones and the radio.
Q As a good investigator I suppose you carried a notebook with you, didn't you?
A Yes, I did.
Q Back in February of 1970, you carried a notebook, is that right?
A Yes.
Q And the purpose of that notebook was -- when you began and were partaking in an investigation -- was to make notes of what you were doing, what you learned, what you observed?
A That is correct.
Q Did you note down in your notebook the time that you received and heard that message?
A I don't recall, sir.
Q What do you mean, you "don't recall"?
A I don't recall if I left it on a pad of paper or if I left it -- I wrote it in that notebook that I had.
Q Don't you still have that notebook today?
A No, sir, I don't.
Q You mean the notebook in which you made the notes of the MacDonald investigation does not exist today?
A I don't know if it exists today. I do not have it in my possession. It may be a part of the voluminous files.
Q Well, we will come back to that. Having gotten the affirmative response, what was the next step that you took?
A I contacted the military police investigator, Hagan Rossi, who was in the building next to me; and I called Staff Sergeant Alexander, who was the on-call photographer for us. I gathered equipment and proceeded to the scene with Rossi.
Q Now, tell us about this equipment you gathered. What is it that you took with you to this scene where you had reason to believe that there was a fatality?
A Camera equipment, the box -- the camera box; and I had a briefcase in which I had items of documents, statement forms, property receipts, evidence containers, items used to collect evidence, things like that.
Q Well, what was in the camera box that you took?
A It was either the Speedgraphic -- 4 by 5 Speedgraphic -- or the 120 camera that was also put out by the Speedgraphic Company. I don't recall.
Q Why did you also call for Sergeant Alexander, the photographer, if you were going to take the camera box with you?
A Because he is a qualified photographer; that is his job.
Q Yes; so why did you also carry the camera box to the job?
A I did not know if he had a camera with him or not at his quarters, so I took that along.
Q I see. Did he actually show up with his own camera?
A Yes, he showed up with the other Speedgraphic, a 4 by 5.
Q So, the biggest piece of equipment you took with you was a camera box; right?
A Biggest piece, yes.
Q You had a bunch of forms in plastic bags to collect evidence in, right?
A That is correct.
Q That is how you went to the crime scene?
A That is correct.
Q Did Mr. Rossi go with you, too?
A Yes, he did.
Q What time did you arrive at or near 544 Castle Drive?
A At 4:00 o'clock.
Q I can't hear you?
A At 4:00 a.m.
Q 4:00 a.m. exactly?
A As close to 4:00 a.m. as could be recorded on my watch, yes.
Q Well, I can believe your watch recorded it; where did you record it?
A I recorded it in my notes.
Q And those are the notes that you don't know where they are today, right?
A That is correct.
Q That was the notes (sic) you kept in a notebook as an investigator?
A That is correct.
Q How long did it take you to get from CID headquarters to at or near 544 Castle Drive?
A Three to five minutes; not long.
Q Did you call anyone else, or contact anyone else, other than Mr. Hagan Rossi and Sergeant Alexander, before you left to go to this address?
A Other than perhaps to tell the desk that I was en route, I don't recall having called anyone else.
Q Did anything unusual happen during the trip from your headquarters to Castle Drive?
A No; it did not.
Q Have you now told us, to the best of your recollection, everything that transpired from the time that you got the message until you arrived at the address on Castle Drive?
A To the best of my recollection; yes, sir.
Q You certainly have not omitted anything significant, as far as you can recall?
A Not that I can recall; no, sir.
Q When you got to the vicinity of Castle Drive, where was the vehicle in which you were riding -- where was that parked?
A In one of the parking slots. I believe it was shown in one of the photographs that we looked at earlier -- one of the parking slots in front of the building, perhaps around 538 or 540 Castle Drive.
Q Well, let's take a look, because I am kind of interested where you were. Let me show you a handful of these enlargements which we have provided by the Government, and perhaps you can pick out the one, Mr. Ivory, which would allow us to see where you parked your vehicle?
A The one that is marked Government Exhibit 162(a).
Q Would you mind putting it up on the easel right behind you, please, and point with your finger, if you will, to where 544 Castle Drive, or the MacDonald home, is located?
A It is here -- this door right here -- the door on the far right (indicating).
Q All right; and would you point with your finger also to the place where you say you parked your vehicle?
A Right here (indicating).
Q You are pointing to the place where the second vehicle in that picture, going from left to right, is located; is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q That is about how many feet from there to the front door of Castle Drive, if you go by the sidewalks -- 30 feet?
A 30 feet?
Q Does that seem reasonable?
A Seems reasonable.
Q Okay; and it was raining when you arrived at the MacDonald house, wasn't it?
A That is correct.
Q Was it raining pretty much all night?
A Yes; it had been.
Q Your vehicle was wet; is that right?
A Yes.
Q Had you driven, or had Mr. Hagan Rossi driven?
A I believe I drove.
Q Had the windshield wipers on, didn't you?
A Yes.
Q When you got out of the vehicle, did you have to go at a dog trot to get up to the house to avoid getting too wet?
A No.
Q Were you carrying the camera bag and the other bag at that time?
A Not at that time; no.
Q Did both of you go into the house or up to the house at that point?
A That is correct.
Q Could you feel the rain as you walked up to the house?
A Yes; I did.
Q Did you get some of it on your clothing?
A I'm sure.
Q Was the rain steady at that point?
A It was raining lightly. It had been raining steady earlier. It was raining lightly.
Q Did you walk on the sidewalks, as shown there, or cut over the lawn?
A I walked on the sidewalk.
Q Is there a picture in that display -- in that set of pictures I gave you -- to show us the sidewalk that you followed to get up to the MacDonald front door?
A No; they all seem to be blocked by vehicles. Perhaps photograph 161(b), perhaps, would show the sidewalk.
Q All right; would you put that up on the display, and then, if you will, point with your finger and show us the sidewalk that you walked on in whatever path you took to get to the front door of the MacDonald house?
A I walked along the sidewalk, up that sidewalk into the door.
Q And there are a series of steps leading up to that dark door which is the entrance to the house?
A That is correct.
Q When you got up to the entry to that house, was it open or shut?
A The door was open.
Q What did you do when you and Mr. Hagan Rossi got up to that door?
A I entered the house.
Q What about Mr. Hagan Rossi?
A I believe he entered the house directly behind me.
Q What?
A I believe he entered the house directly behind me.
Q Neither one of you were carrying any equipment, though, at that juncture that you had brought to the scene in your car?
A Not that I recall, no, sir.
Q Did you see anybody outside as you were going up to the house?
A Yes, sir; I did.
Q Who did you see and where was that person or persons?
A There were persons standing on -- I think there was an MP standing on the grass here (indicating). There were some military policemen standing in the doorway and there were two people that I took to be medical personnel standing on the front porch.
Q All right, let's make sure the record is clear when you were talking about where people were standing. The first person you mentioned, you say was standing somewhere on the lawn or grass area. Were they near the sidewalk or near the building wall?
A Perhaps, right in this area (indicating) -- somewhere in that area in front of that window, perhaps. I don't know.
Q I know you have shown us, but I have to convert that to words that can be on the record in this case.
A Closer to the building than to the street.
Q All right. How many people were standing on the lawn at that place you just indicated?
A One that I can recall.
Q Uniformed military policeman?
A Uniformed military policeman.
Q Now, tell us how many other military policemen besides that one were standing outside either on the sidewalk, the grass, or in the covered area that is shown at the door to Dr. MacDonald's house and the adjoining house?
A Military policemen, you say, again?
Q Yes, first military policemen.
A There were two or three standing up on the landing on the porch by the front door.
Q There were also the two men that you have identified as medics; is that right?
A That is correct.
Q Did you recognize any of those men at that time as to who they were?
A Yes, I did.
Q Could you tell us, please, who you recognized seeing outside the MacDonald house?
A At this point, no, I can't.
Q Did you make a note in your little investigator's notebook as to who the MPs were who were at the scene?
A No.
Q Then, you went into the house and you believe Mr. Hagan Rossi was behind you?
A That is correct.
Q Now, have you told us all that you can recall that transpired between the time that you parked your car and you and Mr. Hagan Rossi entered the MacDonald house?
A As best I can recall, yes, sir.
Q You have omitted no significant fact that you can recall?
A Not that I can recall, no, sir.

THE COURT: Members of the jury, that brings us to the close of today's trial day. We will recess now for the night. We will let you go first as is our custom. I ask you, please, not to talk about this case among yourselves or with others. Don't let anybody talk about it anywhere around you. Don't look at, listen to, or read anything about it. Keep open minds about it. You have not heard all of one side of the case yet. Have a good night, a safe trip home and back, and tomorrow morning, we convene at 9:30. You may retire.

(Jury exits at 4:58 p.m.)

THE COURT: I have had complaints by the counsel and court officials about members of the press and others coming into the bar enclosure area at the times when we were in recess. I must ask you not to do that. We have hundreds and hundreds of exhibits here, and you see, the last witness there can't find his notebook or doesn't know where it is. In the interest of preserving this crime scene, we ask you not to come inside. If you want to talk to anybody about the case, and I can't imagine who would want to, but if you do, then, you will have to see them outside the Court, please. Take a recess until tomorrow morning at 9:30.

(The proceeding was adjourned at 5:01 p.m., to reconvene at 9:30 a.m. on Tuesday, July 24, 1979.)


Note from Christina Masewicz:
The Court Reporter's misspelling of Graebner was corrected to read Grebner in the above transcript.

 

 

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