The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site is a compendium of information about the Jeffrey MacDonald case. MacDonald was convicted in 1979 of the murders of his pregnant wife and two small daughters. He is serving three life sentences for that brutal crime.


The Murders of Colette, Kimberley and Kristen MacDonald
 

The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site

1974-1975 JEFFREY MACDONALD CASE GRAND JURY TRANSCRIPT
January 14, 1975: Craig Chamberlain (Former CID Lab
Serologist and Drug Analyst)

 

I, Mary M. Ritchie, being a Notary Public in and for the State of North Carolina, was appointed to take the testimony of the following witness, CRAIG STANLEY CHAMBERLAIN, before the Grand Jury, Raleigh, North Carolina, commencing at 2:45 p.m. on January 14, 1975. All Grand Jurors present with the exception of Juror Samuel Cannady who was permanently excused from all subsequent Jury Duty by the Judge.

Whereupon, CRAIG STANLEY CHAMBERLAIN, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

EXAMINATION BY MR. WOERHEIDE:
Q Will you state your name, please, sir?
A Craig Stanley Chamberlain.
Q And where do you live, Mr. Chamberlain?
A Champaign, Illinois.
Q What's your street address?
A 707 South Sixth Street, Apartment 217.
Q Are you a student at the University of Illinois?
A Yes, sir.
Q Working for your Ph.D.?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, back in February of 1970, what were you doing?
A I was a serologist and a drug analyst at the United States Army Criminal Investigation Laboratory at Ft. Gordon, Georgia.
Q Now, directing your attention to the date of February 17, 1970, were you, on that date, brought up to Ft. Bragg?
A Yes, sir.
Q And were you part of a team?
A Yes, sir.
Q From Ft. Bragg -- from the lab?
A From Ft. Gordon to Bragg.
Q Who was in charge of the team?
A I believe it was Master Sergeant Medlin, but I don't really remember.
Q Now, how long did you stay here? Do you recall?
A Five days.
Q Five days at Ft. Bragg?
A Yes, sir.
Q And during that five-day period of time, what did you do?
A We analyzed -- well, we collected evidence at the house at Ft. Bragg -- the bloodstains.
Q That's the house of Jeffrey MacDonald and Colette and Kimberly and Kristen MacDonald at 544 Castle Drive in Ft. Bragg?
A Yes, sir. I believe so. I don't really know the address now.
Q All right, sir, now, as you say you were a serologist, was your special task or assignment to collect serological evidence?
A That was one part of my duties. Normally, I would analyze serological evidence in the laboratory.
Q But, while you were up at Ft. Bragg, you were collecting the evidence?
A Yes, sir.
Q Will you describe to the members of the grand jury how you went about your work of collecting the evidence?
A Yes, sir. Well, I was appointed a supervisor. I think it was Specialist Shaw. And with the C.I.D. there, we went around from room to room and examined each room for possible bloodstains, mainly, and sometimes fibers and hairs and debris. And we then told the fingerprint people what things were of interest to us; and the fingerprint people went through and examined for fingerprints, dusting with fingerprint powder. And we marked our areas and numbered them. The fingerprint people went through, and then we went through after that and removed bloodstains, collected fibers, things like that. And put them in files and labeled them.
Q Now, when you collect bloodstains, for my information, do you sometimes cut out a piece of the carpet or a section of the wall or floorboard, in order to acquire the entire stained surface?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you sometimes gouge a piece of surface, let's say, from a piece of plaster ceiling or a wall surface?
A Yes, sir.
Q In order to recover the stain?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you sometimes pick up the stain by applying some sort of a moist cotton swab to the bloody surface?
A Yes, sir, occasionally.
Q Is there any other technique involved in picking up bloodstains?
A Not that I can think of offhand -- either just removing the surface, or picking it up with the cotton swab, dampened with a saline solution, or removing the whole item.
Q All right, sir, at the time you picked up evidence, such as bloodstains, did you make some sort of a record or notation, so you could be able to tell what type of blood was found at what points or on what objects that were in this house?
A Yes, sir. I took laboratory -- I took notes while I was doing it, and we also marked the areas in the house numerically.
Q Now, in the course of your investigation, did you ascertain the blood types of the various members of the MacDonald family?
A I, personally, did not.
Q But you became apprised to the fact as to what their blood type was. Is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q And, is it proper to say that Colette, the mother, was type A; and that Jeffrey, the father, was type B -- that Kimberly, the oldest daughter, was type AB; and Kristen, the youngest daughter, was type O?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, I have here -- You tell us what it is.
A I believe that is, essentially, an explosion drawing, a three-dimensional type drawing, of the hallway at the MacDonald house.
Q Is that the hallway? I was looking for the east bedroom. Is this the east bedroom?
A Yes, this is the same thing; but it's the east bedroom.
Q Have you gone over that thing?
A Yes, sir. I have looked at it and marked it.

MR. WOERHEIDE: Will you mark this, Ms. Reporter, as Chamberlain Exhibit #1.

(CHAMBERLAIN EXHIBIT #1 - MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION)

Q (By Mr. Woerheide) Now, you described this as an exploded drawing. Is this the floor?
A Yes, sir.
Q Is this the entrance to the hall?
A Yes, I believe it is.
Q Is this the entrance to the utility room?
A Yes, sir, I believe it is.
Q And is this the wall where this doorway is situated? This exits to the utility room?
A Yes, sir.
Q Is this the ceiling that goes over the floor of the room?
A Yes, it is.
Q And, if you were to relate the ceiling to the floor, would you have to sort of turn it down like this?
A Yes, sir. The whole drawing is unfolded like a box.
Q I see. So, this is the east end of this room. This is the floor. This is the east end of the ceiling. This is the south end of the room, and this is the south end of the ceiling.
A Yes, sir.
Q Is that correct?
A Yes, sir, that's correct.
Q And this is the west wall which is this wall here, with the exit to the hall. Is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q And this is the south wall which is this wall here?
A Yes, sir.
Q And this is the east wall which is this wall here?
A Yes, sir.
Q So, if you cut these out and fold them altogether, you have a fair representation of the room, by folding. Is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, I see various marks on the ceiling. Is that indicating that you collected blood from the ceiling for analysis by the laboratory?
A I did collect blood from the ceiling. Yes, sir.
Q And I see on the west wall various marks. Does that indicate you collected blood at these points?
A Yes, sir, that they were believed to be bloodstains when I collected them.
Q And I see on the south wall blood that -- I mean marks. Does that indicate blood was collected at those places?
A Yes, sir.
Q And I see on the east wall marks that indicate that blood was collected in those places.
A Yes, sir.
Q In addition, I don't see any marks on the floor. Is it not true that there was a substantial amount of blood on the floor in that room?
A Yes, sir. There was a substantial amount of blood on the floor.
Q And you also collected that by cutting out sections of the carpet? In other words, recovering --
A I didn't collect all of it, personally; but it was collected.
Q By people working with you, in conjunction with you?
A Yes, sir. Most of it was collected then; and some of it was collected after I left and sent to me.
Q Now, do you have here, before you, at this time, an analysis which indicates where you found type A blood, where you found type AB blood, where you found type O blood, and where you found type B blood -- that being the blood respectively -- blood types of Colette, Kimberly, Kristen, and Jeffrey MacDonald?
A Yes. These reports do indicate where each type of blood was found.
Q All right, now, directing your attention to this room, which is this room in this diagram (indicating east bedroom), did you find any type O blood in that room?
A There was no positive identification of type O blood. I believe in a couple of places, there was an indication of the possibility of type O blood.
Q But, what is your conclusion with respect to those indications?
A I would say it's more likely that that was type A blood.
Q And when you say an indication, what do you mean by an indication, as opposed to a positive identification?
A A positive identification means I am certain it is a particular blood type. If I say indicated, it means I'm not sure; and I have limited it usually to two possibilities.
Q Well, now, under what circumstances do you get an indication rather than a positive identification?
A Often you obtain an indication rather than a positive identification when you have a sample that just isn't enough sample to analyze sufficiently. In other words, we perform several tests; and we may only be able to perform one of these tests because of the quality of the sample.
Q So, there's no blood in this room that you positively identified as type O. There are two points where you have blood that was probably type A, but you could not exclude the possibility that it was type O. Is that correct?
A That is correct.
Q All right, now, did you find any evidence in this room of type B blood?
A No, sir, I don't believe we did.
Q All right, now, let's go to AB; and I'd like for you, if possible, to refer to those things. Did you find any blood in this blood that was definitely type AB blood? I'm not referring just to the drawing -- to the marks that are placed on the wall; but I'm also referring to the examination that was made in the laboratory of blood that was found on the carpets and other places in the area.
A Could I refer to my notes?
Q Yes, please do. I'm referring to shoes in the closet.
A You're interested in type AB?
Q AB, Kimberly's blood.
A I believe we had some indications of things that could possibly be B, and we have some that are positively identified as AB in the east bedroom.
Q All right, can you tell us where that was located?
A Yes, sir.
Q How about this area here? (Indicating entrance to room)
A Now, that's the entrance to the east bedroom. We found some AB bloodstains in that area.
Q Where did you find them?
A I don't know exactly, from what I have here.
Q How is it designated?
A This is our laboratory Exhibit D-157.
Q That was on the floor?
A Yes, sir, on the hall floor.
Q So, it would be just in the hall right there at this point. Is that it?
A Yes, sir, it would be in that area.
Q All right, what else did you find?
A There was a blue sheet on the floor.
Q That was down here?
A I don't remember exactly where it was located, but it was in the bedroom. That was type AB. That contained bloodstains of type AB, also. Then, there was a pair of shoes that also had type AB bloodstains.
Q That was here in the closet?
A I can't place it that exactly without looking at some other notes.
Q Now, any other places?
A No, sir. There are no more places there that we identified positively as having AB type blood.
Q All right, now, how about here? Was the AB written on this?
A This area here means that we didn't have enough material to test completely, so we weren't able to give a positive identification. We found a stain there that was either A or AB.
Q Now, referring to any records that you want to refer to, again, is it fair to say that the -- most of the blood found in this room -- on the ceiling, on the walls, and on the floor -- was type A blood, the blood of Colette?
A Yes, sir. It was type A blood, mostly.
Q Okay, let's take the hall and then the south bedroom.

JUROR: May I ask you a question? What type of shoes were they on which you found blood?

A I really -- I believe they were white, hard-soled shoes.

Q (By Mr. Woerheide) Like belonged to male or female?

A Male. But I would have to check that out.

MR. WOERHEIDE: I can bring that out by Bill Ivory. They were white men's shoes. The door was open, and the shoes were in the closet inside the door.

Q (By Mr. Woerheide) All right, here's the hall and this is -- let me get this straight. This is the east end of the hall. This is the west end. Is that correct?
A Yes, sir, I believe it is.
Q And this is the doorway to the east bedroom?
A Yes, sir.
Q This is the open end of the hall that goes down into the living room, right?
A Yes, sir, I believe it is.
Q And this is the south wall which would be this wall of the hall, and this would be the entrance to Kim's bedroom. This is the north wall, this part of the hall. This would be the entrance to Kris' bedroom, and this would be the entrance to the bathroom. Is that correct?
A Yes, sir. I'm not sure which room is Kris' and which was Kim's. You know --
Q I can tell you. This is the door that goes to Kris'; and this is the door that goes to Kim's.
And this is the bathroom.
All right, now, did you find any O blood in that hall? I'm going to go through these on O, AB, and B. And, just to make sure, sir, I haven't forgotten something, did you find any B blood in the master bedroom?
A I don't believe so.
Q My recollection is you did not.
A I don't believe we found any positive indications of O blood. We didn't identify any O blood positively in the hall region.
Q Did you identify any AB blood positively in the hall?
A Yes, sir.
Q I see an indication here, here, and here. Is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q And those would be the three locations where you found substantial amounts of AB blood?
A Certainly those three. I don't see any others.
Q Were there other locations?
A I don't believe so.
Q Well, I see type AB here. That's on the wall.
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, do you see any other locations?
A No, sir.
Q All right, sir, how much B blood did you find? I see an indication of type B right here at what I take is the doorway between the hall and the east bedroom.
A Yes, sir. I found type B blood there.
Q Where was that located?
A I believe it was on the doorsill, the part that goes up.
Q Now, I see, just a step down the hall, an indication of type B blood in the middle of the hall. Is that correct?
A Yes, sir, that's correct.
Q Now, over here on the wall, I see a number of marks have been made. I see the notation, "N.B." Does that mean that's not blood?
A Yes, sir. I didn't make those marks; but that's what it does mean.
Q I also see some red spots along the wall. No type is given. Does that mean there was only enough blood on those locations to identify it as blood and not sufficient -- a sufficient sample to identify the type of blood?
A Essentially, yes. In some cases, we just had an indication there was blood.
Q Now, can you read that for me, and tell me what it means?
A Yes, sir. It's a "B slash O" and I believe what that means is that there was an indication it was either -- It was a bloodstain, and it was either type B or type O.
Q And here "A dash O." Would the same be true there?
A Yes, sir.

A All right.

(CHAMBERLAIN EXHIBITS #2 AND #3 - MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION)

Q (By Mr. Woerheide) Okay, here is Kimberly's room. This is the floor plan. This is the hall along side the wall -- the hall. This is the ceiling. This is the east wall. This is the west wall and the south wall. I take it there was a lot of blood, which is not indicated here. Is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q But, in addition to that, there was blood found on the wall to the north, the wall to the west, and some blood on the floor. Is that correct?
A Yes, sir, that's correct.
Q Now, did you make the positive identification of any of that blood?
A Yes, sir.
Q And, what did you identify?
A This, which is our exhibit D-136, we identified as blood of the international blood group type A.
Q That would be Colette's blood?
A Yes, sir.
Q What was the elevation there?
A I believe that was about seven feet.
Q Off the floor?
A Off the floor. And this region here, which was our exhibit D-134, we identified type AB blood.
Q All right, now, I take it, this was identified as blood, but it was insufficient for the purposes of typing and -- Is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q And, this was identified as being, probably, type A blood; but you could not a hundred percent eliminate the possible O?
A Yes, sir, that's correct.
Q Can you say definitely it was not type AB? I'm talking about the "A slash O" there and here.
A Yes. Assuming it wasn't a mixture of several blood group types. Yes, sir.

MR. WOERHEIDE: Now, we'll take the north bedroom.

JUROR: There was no B blood?

Q (By Mr. Woerheide) Was there any B blood in that bedroom?
A No, sir.

(CHAMBERLAIN EXHIBIT #4 - MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION)

Q (By Mr. Woerheide) All right, this is the north bedroom. This is where Kristen's bed was.
This is the entrance from the hall. This is the north wall, and this is the ceiling, and this is the south end of the ceiling. This is the east wall. This is the west wall and the south wall.
Now, this blood that I see here -- Is this blood that is on the floor?
A I believe it is, but I'm not really sure.
Q Well, you remember --
A Some of it isn't. Like for example, there is a doll here; but for the most part, I believe it is on the floor. When I was talking about that other -- the one before, I said there was no B blood. There wasn't any B blood on the diagram, and I don't know of any B blood found in the room. But, I didn't look at my notes to see if there was any B blood on the sheets -- and things like that.
Q I think we'll come to the sheets separately when we get Ms. Glisson.
Now, excluding the lower part -- that is the center part of this room -- and directing your attention to the part that's not covered by my hand, was the blood found in this area, that you identified, all type O blood?
A Yes, sir.
Q And that's the blood of --
A Kristen.
Q Kristen. And this was the blood that was on the floor or objects sitting on the floor, such as a stuffed toy?
A Yes, sir.
Q All right, let's get to the wall. Did you find blood on the wall -- on the west wall next to the bed?
A Yes, sir. I didn't collect this; but yes, we did identify that as type A blood.
Q All right, now, that's found in two places on the wall; and there is a third place down here where the identification was possibly O, but most likely A. Is that correct?
A Yes, sir, that's correct.
Q Now, getting down to this area, I see on the diagram two points that are marked. Can you tell us at this time whether these were footprints that were found on the floor?
A Yes, sir, they were two footprints.
Q Can you tell us what the blood types of those footprints were?
A Yes, one footprint, located about here, was positively identified as containing type A blood; and the other one we weren't able to definitely assign a blood group type.
Q However, you decided it was either A or AB, with the B factor deteriorated. Is that correct?
A Possibly.
Q Well, I won't ask you to check it out.
A Well, it has --
Q I see the indication on the diagram -- A or AB. What does that say to you?
A It looks like we got a weak indication of the anti-B, which would tend to more strongly indicate it as type A, than AB.

MR. WOERHEIDE: Let's take the bathroom and the hall closet.

(CHAMBERLAIN EXHIBIT #5 - MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION)

Q (By Mr. Woerheide) All right, here is the floor plan. Here is the bath -- wash basin. This is a closet with sliding doors. Here is the bathtub, again, the wash basin and closet, sliding doors -- this side here. And this is the opposite side. Bathtub -- I suppose that's a hamper or radiator, and this is just a wall. And this is the south wall here.
A Yes, sir.
Q All right, what type of blood did you find in the bathroom and tell us where it was located.
A We positively identified type B blood on the sink in several places. We also found type B blood on the door of the closet in the hall.
Q Is this where Dr. MacDonald kept his medical supplies? Do you recall?
A I believe we did find medical supplies in that closet. We found type A blood, I believe, on the wall above the sink; and we found -- I believe those were the only bloodstains positively identified.
Q Doesn't this indicate some O blood down at the low level on this wall?
A No, no, in this case, it doesn't. The indication of O blood is not a positive identification.
It could be A or B.
Q In addition to that, on the floor at various places, you have indications of both A and B blood. Is that correct?
A Yes, indications of that.
Q Now, did you find any blood here you positively identified as AB?
A No, sir, I don't believe we did.
Q How about this?
A No, that could be A or AB, AB or B.

MR. WOERHEIDE: Let's go down to the dining room and the living room and the kitchen.

(CHAMBERLAIN EXHIBITS #6, #7 AND #8 - MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION)

Q (By Mr. Woerheide) All right, here's the dining room. This is where the hall comes in.
Here's the north wall, the ceiling, and the west wall, and the east wall. Now, did you find blood on the floor?
A Yes, sir.
Q Can you tell us what it was?
A Yes, sir. We found type AB blood in this area, here, at approximately the entrance to the kitchen; and we found type A blood and type AB blood in this area, which is very close, also, to the entrance of the kitchen.
Q Would you say that was a smear, or as a result of direct bleeding?
A I don't remember now. I'd have to look at the photographs.
Q Here is the living room. Here's where the sofa goes. Here's the hall. Here's where the table was and chair and so on and so forth. And, to what extent did you find blood in the living room?
A The only place, I believe, we found blood was here, close to the window on the floor. I believe a pair of eyeglasses were found there with a drop of blood on them, too, on the floor.
Q How large a quantity of blood did you find on the floor there? Was it enough to type?
A No.
Q Was it just enough to identify as blood?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you recall there was a pair of eyeglasses there that had some blood on them?
A Yes, sir, I believe so.
Q What was that type of blood?
A I believe we had indication that it was type O.
Q Now we come to the kitchen.
A Yes, the kitchen.
Q Here's the kitchen.
A This is the entrance to the living room. This door goes outside.
Q This is north this way. Is that it?
A Yes, sir, it's backwards.
Q This diagram -- You've got to turn yourself around ninety degrees; because, pointing this way is north and that would make this south. This would make this east and this west. So, this would be the entrance to the kitchen from the dining room. And this is the sink. This is the stove. This is the refrigerator. This is either the washer or the dryer. This is a closet.
This is where the telephone hangs on the wall. Now, I see a number of marks here on the walls. Do these indicate the presence of blood, but not enough to identify?
A Yes, sir, they indicate the stains. We found there was possibly blood here.
Q And, is this true of the marks on the floor that I have just indicated with the pointer?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, we get to this point; and is that positively and definitely and unequivocally type B blood?
A Yes, sir.
Q And where was that located in the room, physically?
A On the floor -- Well, yes, on the floor, in front of the sink.
Q Mr. Chamberlain, you said you spent five days at Ft. Bragg; and you returned to Ft. Gordon. Is that correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q And after you returned to Ft. Gordon, did you work with other personnel at Ft. Gordon in typing the blood that you brought back?
A Yes, sir.
Q And who was principally in charge of that operation? Was it Janice Glisson? That is, the serology.
A Actually, I was sort of in charge.
Q She was working for you?
A Yes, sir, because I had collected the evidence.
Q But you worked together as a team?
A Yes, sir.
Q Would you say that Janice Glisson is an experienced technician who has been doing this quite a bit of time?
A Yes, sir.
Q Now, did Janice Glisson mainly work with some of the physical evidence, consisting of sheets, pillowcases, bedspreads; or did you also work on that?
A I worked on it, and she did much of it.
Q Do you know what she did on it, and she knew what you did on it? And, the idea of the work that you were doing, was to more or less cooperate with one another. Is that it? And back each other up? She might run some tests on one sample; and you would run a different series of tests on the same sample, in order to eliminate certain possibilities. Is that correct?
A Yes, sir, that's right.

MR. WOERHEIDE: Does anyone have any questions at this time of Mr. Chamberlain, concerning this matter that he testified to? I think I'm going to use Janice Glisson for a while, but I'm going to ask him to stand by in case something comes up that you want to question him further about.

Q (By Mr. Woerheide) Mr. Chamberlain, I have what has been marked as Ivory Exhibit #2 of this date. And in this plastic envelope I have what appears to be a bath mat. And attached to it is a card that has Exhibit D-214. Is that identified as the bath mat that you worked on in the lab?
A Yes, sir.
Q Is this the bath mat? Do you recognize it?
A Yes, sir.
Q All right, will you show the jury what you did, and what conclusions you arrived at as a result of the examination you made?
A Well, first, you can see both sides of this were examined individually for possible presence of bloodstains; and areas were marked and labeled with the letters alphabetically on both sides. And, then, these areas were tested to determine the blood type of these bloodstains.
Would you like for me to go through?
Q Yes, tell us what you found.
A Okay.
Q Let's start with A. Go through B, C, D, E, F, G, on this side.
A Actually, Janice Glisson and I did different tests on the same stains, at times. Do you want me to give the net results?
Q Give us the net results.
A Okay. I did essentially the first in two tests, what we call the crust test or the lattice test, which is a test for the determination of antibodies -- essentially on stains. There are more markings on the other side, stains A through J. I got negative results. That is, I found no antibodies which could possibly indicate type AB blood. That is, it's not inconsistent with the fact that type AB blood could be there.
On the other side, K -- It's right here. I found a possible indication of the Alpha antibody and a definite indication of the Beta antibody, and Janice found both the A and B blood group back here. And that's about all you can find, which does indicate it a mixture. So, all we could say is that it was human blood. We couldn't determine that it was any particular type.
It's probably a mixture.
I'm looking for area L. I can't seem to find it. This area here -- area L. Together, we definitely identified it as type A blood. Area M -- This area right here. I found a possible presence of the Beta antibody, which all we can say about that is it indicated blood. There's a possibility that it could be type A, but we didn't have enough information to really say for sure.
Area N -- right here, a weak indication of the Alpha; but a strong indication of Beta, which is probably an indication of type A blood, or possibly O. And the last area, area O, there was a negative where we found no antibodies for blood group factors. All we could say is there was an indication of blood there.
Q What is your number for that?
A 214.
Q D-214?
A Yes, sir.

MR. WOERHEIDE: I don't think I want to go any further with Mr. Chamberlain at this time. Do you have any questions you want to ask him? If not, we will proceed with Ms. Glisson, unless you want to go home. We could get started with her.

FOREMAN: All right, let's do that.

(Chamberlain dismissed)

 

 

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